================================================== ====================

Subject: Ruby for 3D graphics?
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:32:42 -0700

Ok, I'm sick to death of C++. I'm moving on to a higher level language of
some kind. But, my lower level 3D graphics problems are not going to go
away. Why is Ruby exciting to a 3D graphics optimization jock?

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Subject: Re: Why would you abandon Ruby? (was)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:04:03 -0700

Ok, good at scripting, not good at embedded. How about large systems
programming?

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Subject: Evaluating Ruby objectively (not exactly)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:37:22 -0700

I'd like to know how appropriate people think it is as a systems programming
language. Someone else said, scripting is good, embedded is bad. What
about huge honking piles of code? What happens as you scale up?

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Subject: Re: This is a newsgroup, not a mailing list (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:50:28 -0700

Truthfully, I'm not looking for 3D graphics solutions right now. I'm
looking for:
1) a way to make money
2) a way to implement 2D games quickly in a cross-platform manner

================================================== ====================

Subject: Why did you switch from Python to Ruby?
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 23:52:58 -0700

This question is only meant to apply to people who used to use Python, but
switched to Ruby. Why did you do so?

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Subject: Evaluating Ruby objectively (not exactly)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:37:22 -0700

But I think it's probably going to be awhile before I know or care
what the difference between dynamism in Python and Ruby is.

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Subject: social engineering (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 03:03:53 -0700

The important point that I recalled from discussion, is Python isn't
as backwards as the Ruby FAQ would have you believe. It keeps
improving and a lot of the issues go away over time.

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Subject: Re: Why would you abandon Ruby? (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:22:33 -0700

Well, the Python crowd recognizes and has all of these dilemmas. But the
reaction of the community isn't to sit there and say, "Oh, we can't win,
marketing is futile." They start a marketing-python list and deal with the
problem. They don't duck it, or handwave it away as unimportant. This is
the main way that Python is more advanced than Ruby. It is more advanced in
terms of community organization, tools and library support, marketing,
mindshare, etc. All that boring industrial stuff. The stuff it takes to
make a high flying language actually usable in an industrial context.

----

Subject: Re: Why would you abandon Ruby? (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:25:29 -0700
> Now, to address your original question a little: What compelling
> reason is there to choose Ruby over Python? (I'm paraphrasing;
> forgive me if I distorted your meaning.)
You have distorted the meaning. I asked, "Why would you abandon Ruby?" Has
nothing to do with Python.

================================================== ====================

Subject: Re: Why would you abandon Ruby? (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:25:29 -0700

I'm bored with all kinds of things in computers. It comes from having
experience.

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Subject: Evaluating Ruby objectively (not exactly)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:37:22 -0700

For the most part I dislike programming,

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Subject: the mindshare of Ruby (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 03:34:51 -0700
> And, learning a new language is always beneficial.
No it is not. Learning a new language is a time sink

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Subject: Re: the mindshare of Ruby (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 05:54:41 -0700
> Learning languages is fun, I'd do it even if it were useless.
I consider it pain and suffering.

================================================== ====================

Subject: Re: Why would you abandon Ruby? (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 00:59:32 -0700

Your attitudes are deeply ugly.

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Subject: Re: Why would you abandon Ruby? (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:39:23 -0700

I think you define "informed view" according to your own prejudices.

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Subject: Re: Why would you abandon Ruby? (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:11:50 -0700

Let me point out what you don't like.

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Subject: Re: Why would you abandon Ruby? (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:22:33 -0700

Recognize that if that's your attitude, people *won't* come.

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Subject: Re: At least one nasty person in your community
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:33:05 -0700

You have a problem child.

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Subject: social engineering (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 03:03:53 -0700

People fixate on what they want to have happen, rather than what's
going to happen. So they implement dysfunctional policies that don't
get them what they want. They iterate in endless loops because they
lack imagination.

----

Subject: Re: At least one nasty person in your community
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:46:23 -0700

IMO, certain people should accept blame for being hostile to me in the
first place.

================================================== ====================

Subject: Re: Why would you abandon Ruby? (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 00:59:32 -0700

Well, this is Usenet, and it ain't your show.

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Subject: This is a newsgroup, not a mailing list (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:04:43 -0700

When you gate your mailing list to a USENET newsgroup, you are agreeing to
the standards of USENET. The gate is a convenience for you, not a right,
let alone an abrogation of general USENET standards. Your newsgroup has a
Charter.

----

Subject: Re: At least one nasty person in your community
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:46:23 -0700

IMO, the other thing you should do as a community, is start recognizing that
you're on a newsgroup, not a mailing list.

----

Subject: Re: Old guard FAQ culture
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:41:50 -0700
> You're a stranger marching into a party beating a drum and
> demanding attention,
See, that's how you see your community. Something private. Something to be
protected. Others see a newsgroup as a space of global public discourse.
With rules and mores common to all unmoderated newsgroups.

----

Subject: Re: Old guard FAQ culture
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:41:50 -0700

It doesn't matter what you were before. You signed on to Usenet. There are
rules on Usenet for unmoderated newsgroups.

----

Subject: Re: Old guard FAQ culture
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:44:33 -0700
> ([url]http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html[/url])
> 3.1.1 General Guidelines for mailing lists and NetNews
> - Read both mailing lists and newsgroups for one to two months
> before you post anything. This helps you to get an
> understanding of the culture of the group.
Well, that's ridiculous.

----

Subject: Re: Old guard FAQ culture
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:41:50 -0700

I don't have time for "hunt the FAQ." Your FAQ was not in my newsfeed when
I signed on.

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Subject: Old guard FAQ culture
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:22:54 -0700
> That's because, contrary to common guidelines of Usenet etiquette -
> which you'll no doubt declare are of no interest to you personally
> right now - you have not spent any time lurking to get the feel of the
> group.
I don't believe in lurking "to get the feel," and never have. It is a
luxury for people with all the time in the world.

----

Subject: Brandon's personal style (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:28:20 -0700
> I've found that it often pays
> to lurk on a list for a while, read the archives, and get a sense of
> things before posting. That way, you avoid asking frequently asked
> questions, bring up unrelated discussions.
But those are benefits to the Ruby community, not to me. Why am I supposed
to do things only for your community's benefit?

================================================== ====================

Subject: Old guard FAQ culture
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:22:54 -0700

I don't believe in lurking "to get the feel," and never have. It is a
luxury for people with all the time in the world.

----

Subject: Re: Old guard FAQ culture
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:41:50 -0700

I don't have time for "hunt the FAQ." Your FAQ was not in my newsfeed when
I signed on.

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Subject: Old guard FAQ culture
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:22:54 -0700

Nobody has the time. This is 2003. Things to do. Places to be.

----

bardprism:/var/spool/news/comp/lang/ruby$ du -hc `grep -l 'From: "Brandon J. Van Every' *` | grep total
212k total
bardprism:/var/spool/news/comp/lang/ruby$ grep -l 'From: "Brandon J. Van Every' * | xargs grep ^Date:
17133:Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:32:42 -0700
17248:Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 23:48:58 -0700
17249:Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 23:52:58 -0700
17279:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:05:56 +0900
17313:Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 13:44:28 -0700
17328:Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 15:01:52 -0700
17346:Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 22:20:10 -0700
17347:Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 22:32:20 -0700
17348:Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 22:50:43 -0700
17352:Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:04:03 -0700
17355:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 15:38:20 +0900
17360:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 00:53:04 -0700
17361:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 00:59:32 -0700
17362:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:07:14 -0700
17365:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:25:29 -0700
17366:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:39:23 -0700
17370:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:11:50 -0700
17375:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:37:22 -0700
17376:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:38:28 -0700
17378:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 03:03:53 -0700
17382:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 03:34:51 -0700
17391:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 05:37:25 -0700
17392:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 05:41:29 -0700
17396:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 05:54:41 -0700
17398:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 06:16:42 -0700
17402:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 06:29:21 -0700
17404:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 06:39:22 -0700
17419:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:03:49 -0700
17420:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:04:43 -0700
17423:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:22:54 -0700
17431:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:57:22 -0700
17432:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:00:48 -0700
17434:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:03:30 -0700
17435:Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 00:51:19 +0900
17438:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:12:05 -0700
17443:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:22:33 -0700
17444:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:28:20 -0700
17446:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:33:05 -0700
17455:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:46:23 -0700
17457:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:50:28 -0700
17461:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:56:37 -0700
17465:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:12:50 -0700
17469:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:22:49 -0700
17472:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:26:26 -0700
17482:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:41:50 -0700
17484:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:44:33 -0700
17485:Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:47:02 -0700