Tables - do we really need them?

[henryd]

Are tables and using them just for beginners and newbies?

Everything i have built in HTML works just fine using tables but i do find it
a little limited....i think its time to move on but i dont quite understand to
what - can soemone direct me a tutorial or website that explains the different
methods, thanks H

[Excavatorak]

Tables have their place... it's just they were never intended to be used for placement. Have a look at [url]http://webdesign.about.com/od/layout/a/aa111102a.htm[/url]

[Css Lover]

Tables are still good, and if Microsoft uses them on their website it is for a
good reason.

Without tables they would gain $$$, because it would be quicker for us to
download a simple css based layout and therefore a wee bit less pull on a
server.

With tables they ensure that everyone sees the website.

The only css based table-less websites which do this have not got a lot of
detail to contain.

Even dreamweaver Css templates can tend to look different from screen to
screen, but if you enclose them with a simple table, it stops the usual text
flow which you can get as you resize windows.

[henryd]

ok - so most sites are built with a mix of CSS and tables - (apologies i am still a learner here....) thanks

[henryd]

thanks for links by the way

[Murray *ACE*]

> Tables are still good, and if Microsoft uses them on their website it is

> for a
> good reason.

With 10^6 pages to convert it's likely that there is a much more pragmatic
reason than the one you suggest.

> The only css based table-less websites which do this have not got a lot of
> detail to contain.

What nonsense. Try [url]http://www.espn.com[/url]....

> Even dreamweaver Css templates can tend to look different from screen to
> screen, but if you enclose them with a simple table, it stops the usual
> text
> flow which you can get as you resize windows.

Goodness. And what about any absolutely positioned elements? This is toxic
information you are posting....

--
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"Css Lover" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:du30bl$fvi$1@forums.macromedia.com...

> Tables are still good, and if Microsoft uses them on their website it is
> for a
> good reason.
>
> Without tables they would gain $$$, because it would be quicker for us to
> download a simple css based layout and therefore a wee bit less pull on a
> server.
>
> With tables they ensure that everyone sees the website.
>
> The only css based table-less websites which do this have not got a lot of
> detail to contain.
>
> Even dreamweaver Css templates can tend to look different from screen to
> screen, but if you enclose them with a simple table, it stops the usual
> text
> flow which you can get as you resize windows.
>

[artdoggy]

I agree with murray. Take a look at [url]http://www.crosshatchdesign.com/synergy[/url]

Not a pretty site but then I didn't design it. Not a table in the place. It
was difficult but it can be done and was a requirement of the client.

[Murray *ACE*]

The client required no tables? Why on earth?

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"artdoggy" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:du941e$t8i$1@forums.macromedia.com...

>I agree with murray. Take a look at [url]http://www.crosshatchdesign.com/synergy[/url]
>
> Not a pretty site but then I didn't design it. Not a table in the place.
> It
> was difficult but it can be done and was a requirement of the client.
>

[Css Lover]

Originally posted by: artdoggy
I agree with murray. Take a look at [url]http://www.crosshatchdesign.com/synergy[/url]

Not a pretty site but then I didn't design it. Not a table in the place. It
was difficult but it can be done and was a requirement of the client.

I'm not disagreeing with Murray, but I just so happen to have used a table on
a few css web sites because no matter how I used a div to contain it, something
went wrong.

For instance, all seemed well until I tested on a really wide screen, an old
dell laptop with max screen resolution made my website look poor indeed.

Try making a DW css template, 2 columnnav, then save it and look at it as you
resize your window.

The left hand margin drops out when the window is scrolled enough.

Using a table stopped it.

I still say that tables have their use, I'd take a div anyday over a table -
if it worked.

My thoughts are that too many big companies use tables on the bigger more
complicated corporate or commercial web sites. Given a web site built with divs
is a wee bit faster to download it must mean that we are at stage where we
won't see every web site using css based divs for a few years yet.

The web site linked to is a good one. No sidescroll, but not tested it in a
big resolution, or a cheap nasty 15" screen I've begged.

A good use of divs indeed.

I admit, I'm nowhere near being an expert.

In a few months, God willing, I might be able to say 'we don't need tables'.
But for now, if all the high ranking web sites use them, I'll take a table for
what it is.

Some css enthusiasts almost look down on tables, but there is a practical
reason for eliminating tables and I wish I could do my web site without them. I
probably will do so, with the help of this forum.

[Murray *ACE*]

> I'm not disagreeing with Murray, but I just so happen to have used a table

> on
> a few css web sites because no matter how I used a div to contain it,
> something
> went wrong.

But this is a problem between the keyboard and the chair, not with CSS
layouts.

> Try making a DW css template, 2 columnnav, then save it and look at it as
> you
> resize your window.
>
> The left hand margin drops out when the window is scrolled enough.

What?

> In a few months, God willing, I might be able to say 'we don't need
> tables'.
> But for now, if all the high ranking web sites use them, I'll take a table
> for
> what it is.

That's a poor reason. Use them when they work for what you want to do.

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[Css Lover]

Originally posted by: Newsgroup User

> I'm not disagreeing with Murray, but I just so happen to have used a table on

a few css web sites because no matter how I used a div to contain it,
something
went wrong.

But this is a problem between the keyboard and the chair, not with CSS
layouts.

</q>

Classic comment

You inspire me

In some ways your right.

I've taken onboard your advice and have made alterations on the web site.

I admit, getting the web site contained in a div as opposed to a table, is my
'Waterloo' as it were.

I will find a way to use a div if its the last thing I ever do.

The table is just a easy get out clause which keeps me ok for now. If I cannot
do a div, the table will do and that would be the only 'weak point' of the
design.

Everything else is almost perfect.

[Murray *ACE*]

Post a link to the site, please.

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"Css Lover" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:ducgu4$jav$1@forums.macromedia.com...

> Originally posted by: Newsgroup User

> > I'm not disagreeing with Murray, but I just so happen to have used a
> > table on

> a few css web sites because no matter how I used a div to contain it,
> something
> went wrong.
>
> But this is a problem between the keyboard and the chair, not with CSS
> layouts.
>
> </q>
>
> Classic comment
>
> You inspire me
>
> In some ways your right.
>
> I've taken onboard your advice and have made alterations on the web site.
>
> I admit, getting the web site contained in a div as opposed to a table, is
> my
> 'Waterloo' as it were.
>
> I will find a way to use a div if its the last thing I ever do.
>
> The table is just a easy get out clause which keeps me ok for now. If I
> cannot
> do a div, the table will do and that would be the only 'weak point' of the
> design.
>
> Everything else is almost perfect.
>