Technique help required: Portrait photos

[Russell Stewart]

"Admiral" <kdick@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:84wLa.448$mq3.6363@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

> Hi,
>
> I've finally set a date to do something i've been wanting to do for ages
> now, which is to take some (hopefully) nice shots of all my friends, and a
> couple of attractive women.
>
> Unfortunately i've never done ANY portrait shots before, and while I know

in

> my head exactly the look i'm going for, and what I want to achieve, i'm

not

> exactly sure on the best way of making it happen.
>
> What I want to do is get some 3/4 length photos of my friends, against a
> plain white background. The background has to be really white though, and
> with no discernable texture or shadows from lights/flashes. I'm sure

you've

> seen the type of photos i'm talking about.
>
> I've also lined up two absolutely gorgeous girls who are happy to spend a
> few hours with me and pose. I'll probably try several styles with them,

not

> just the plain white background thing. Hopefully I can keep shutter speeds
> up to a level where my shaky hands won't be obvious. =0)
>
> Basically i'm looking for some suggestions on lighting for the weekend. I
> forsee myself hiring some gear, and I have access to a large area suitable
> for shooting in. What sort of lighting should I get for the white

background

> shots? I really want to nail these ones, with no shadows and a WHITE
> background.
>
> I'd appreciate any help you could throw at me,
>
> -A
>

Your background will need it's own light. Normally one studio flash (or
hotshoe style with a wide angle adapter) hidden behind your subject is all
that is required to light the background.

Make sure you have some room between subject and background so that you get
the coverage that you require and set the background light to be as bright
as your main light or up to 1 stop over.

[Admiral]

Thanks Russell,

Have you got any idea what would be the best lighting to hire for these
shots?

-A

"Russell Stewart" <adpotd@pixelpix.com.au> wrote in message
news:bdm33h$q83$1@austar-news.austar.net.au...

>
> Your background will need it's own light. Normally one studio flash (or
> hotshoe style with a wide angle adapter) hidden behind your subject is all
> that is required to light the background.
>
> Make sure you have some room between subject and background so that you

get

> the coverage that you require and set the background light to be as bright
> as your main light or up to 1 stop over.
>
>
>

[Brenton]

Try this place

[url]http://www.webphotoschool.com[/url]

There are some free lessons here (and bought ones) that may give you
some ideas.

I joined two years ago (when it was cheaper).. and found it interesting
reading and a little helpful with ideas.
My membership is not current now though.
BRenton

[Russell Stewart]

"Admiral" <kdick@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:dwwLa.472$mq3.6631@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

> Thanks Russell,
>
> Have you got any idea what would be the best lighting to hire for these
> shots?
>

I would be looking for a studio strobe kit of at least 3 lights.

They can be any kind Elincrom, Bowens, MultiBlitz... does not really matter,
as long as they have got a good power range. ie some of the cheaper units
may only give you 1/2 and full power, while others may have 4, 8 or more
power levels. The more levels the easier it is to control your lighting
ratios, eg. if the smallest output is 1/2 and you still have too much light,
the only option is to move the light back and this changes the effective
size of the flash and therefor the shadows or "modelling". While if you had
control down to 1/4 or less you could simply leave the light in position and
turn down the power, thus having no effect on the modelling of the light.

So look for the greater power ranges for more control. Whatever you get,
they should come with brollies, snoots and stands, but you may need to ask
for (and pay extra for) a softbox if you need one. You can work very
effectively with brollies alone, but a soft box does provide a nice light
with good modelling.

If you want to use a "key" light to come from behind and highlight the hair
with rim lighting, you may need a 4th light that will allow you the
following setup....

1 main with brollie/soft box
1 fill with brollie
1 key with snoot
1 background with wide reflector

....but you can get away with using a hotshoe flash for the key (wrap a tube
of cardboard around it to make a snoot, this will allow you to light a very
defined area)

Now this is the most important (as my portrait lecturer always said)...
"Don't broad light!! Short light!!"

You want the main light to light the side of the face that is AWAY from
camera, so that the side that presents to the camera is mainly lit by the
fill light and is shadow from the main light. Now I am not saying put the
whole side of the face in shadow... but you should have a soft triangle of
light on the camera side of face that vanishes by the time you get towards
the ears.

This slims the face and looks more attractive.

It's very hard to explain without showing you, but I would suggest that you
have a look at a few portrait/wedding photogs web pages and you will see
what I am talking about.

Having said all that, you can use a white reflector and do away with the
fill light.... if you did this you could get away with 1 main, 1 background
flash & 1 key. ....Don't want a key light I hear you say.... great now we
are down to just using 2 lights, but it's getting way too hard to explain in
text. :-)

Oh! and don't forget a flash meter!

Russell Stewart
Australian Digital Photo Of The Day
[url]http://www.pixelpix.com.au/adpotd.html[/url]

[Auspics]

The background you want to use is the type which causes the most problems
with automatic cameras. Camera exposure meters are averaging devices. The
average everything out so the average exposure of all metered points is
equal to about 18% grey.

There is also a compressed contrast range between points of bright and dark,
it is best to keep portraits within. Today, this is called "low contrast"
but really it's just altering the lighting and subject in the highlights and
shadows so both contain full or near full detail.

Russell was right about the single flash behind the subject. This is called
a slave and fortunately the camera you have and a Sigma or Canon flash can
fire off a slave remotely. If you have one of these flashes, it has a
diffusion cover for wide angle photos.

This is also very good for softening the subject and if you have the two
(Canon or Sigma) flashes... Use the most powerful behind the subject about 1
meter or so from them and out of view. You should experiment with forward
facing and rear facing the flash.

100mm focal length for 35 mm or about 75mm for the 10D will produce very
pleasing appearances and if you pull focus on the nose or eyes with a very
wide aperture, it will help to blur anything in the background, like shadow
edges. Meter for the face or any bright areas because the 10D seems to still
have detail in the shadows but never in blown highlights. The trick is to
blow the background away with the hi-powered flash and still have a softly
lit model.

One of the most pleasing portraits I saw one of my students take (20 years
ago) was when Minolta release their first auto focus camera. The student put
a 240 volt slave (GN 32) flash 22 mm from the girl's head and used the
camera mounted (GN 8) flash with a paper bag over it to set off the slave.
Neither of these flashes had any controls other than on or off. I have used
an opaque curtain for a back drop with a slave flash behind it with good
results too.

Many people in the past when money was hard to get and an automatic camera
was at the top end of the price range... Built their own studio flashes. I
used to make them from a stainless steel salad bowl with a "modeling light"
(a 100 watt globe) in the middle with a bracket to hold a flash slave so it
fired into the bowl. There's no reason why this can't be done with a decent
battery powered flash. I can e-mail you a sketch of one if you are a bit
handy and would like to give it a go.

JT.


"Admiral" <kdick@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:84wLa.448$mq3.6363@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

> Hi,
>
> I've finally set a date to do something i've been wanting to do for ages
> now, which is to take some (hopefully) nice shots of all my friends, and a
> couple of attractive women.
>
> Unfortunately i've never done ANY portrait shots before, and while I know

in

> my head exactly the look i'm going for, and what I want to achieve, i'm

not

> exactly sure on the best way of making it happen.

sniped!

[Admiral]

Wow, thanks Russell, that was far more in depth than I expected, I
appreciate it.

-A

"Russell Stewart" <adpotd@pixelpix.com.au> wrote in message
news:bdm6bs$r7a$1@austar-news.austar.net.au...

>
> "Admiral" <kdick@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
> news:dwwLa.472$mq3.6631@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

> > Thanks Russell,
> >
> > Have you got any idea what would be the best lighting to hire for these
> > shots?
> >

>
> I would be looking for a studio strobe kit of at least 3 lights.
>
> They can be any kind Elincrom, Bowens, MultiBlitz... does not really

matter,

> as long as they have got a good power range. ie some of the cheaper units
> may only give you 1/2 and full power, while others may have 4, 8 or more
> power levels. The more levels the easier it is to control your lighting
> ratios, eg. if the smallest output is 1/2 and you still have too much

light,

> the only option is to move the light back and this changes the effective
> size of the flash and therefor the shadows or "modelling". While if you

had

> control down to 1/4 or less you could simply leave the light in position

and

> turn down the power, thus having no effect on the modelling of the light.
>
> So look for the greater power ranges for more control. Whatever you get,
> they should come with brollies, snoots and stands, but you may need to ask
> for (and pay extra for) a softbox if you need one. You can work very
> effectively with brollies alone, but a soft box does provide a nice light
> with good modelling.
>
> If you want to use a "key" light to come from behind and highlight the

hair

> with rim lighting, you may need a 4th light that will allow you the
> following setup....
>
> 1 main with brollie/soft box
> 1 fill with brollie
> 1 key with snoot
> 1 background with wide reflector
>
> ...but you can get away with using a hotshoe flash for the key (wrap a

tube

> of cardboard around it to make a snoot, this will allow you to light a

very

> defined area)
>
> Now this is the most important (as my portrait lecturer always said)...
> "Don't broad light!! Short light!!"
>
> You want the main light to light the side of the face that is AWAY from
> camera, so that the side that presents to the camera is mainly lit by the
> fill light and is shadow from the main light. Now I am not saying put the
> whole side of the face in shadow... but you should have a soft triangle of
> light on the camera side of face that vanishes by the time you get towards
> the ears.
>
> This slims the face and looks more attractive.
>
> It's very hard to explain without showing you, but I would suggest that

you

> have a look at a few portrait/wedding photogs web pages and you will see
> what I am talking about.
>
> Having said all that, you can use a white reflector and do away with the
> fill light.... if you did this you could get away with 1 main, 1

background

> flash & 1 key. ....Don't want a key light I hear you say.... great now we
> are down to just using 2 lights, but it's getting way too hard to explain

in

> text. :-)
>
> Oh! and don't forget a flash meter!
>
> Russell Stewart
> Australian Digital Photo Of The Day
> [url]http://www.pixelpix.com.au/adpotd.html[/url]
>
>
>
>

[Admiral]

Thanks very much JT, it's replies like yours and Russells that make me
really appreciate the people in this newsgroup.

For the background light, would a strong strobe _behind_ the background
work, assuming it's just thin white fabric?

-A

"Auspics" <just@the.groups> wrote in message
news:dcxLa.506$mq3.6948@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

> The background you want to use is the type which causes the most problems
> with automatic cameras. Camera exposure meters are averaging devices. The
> average everything out so the average exposure of all metered points is
> equal to about 18% grey.
>
> There is also a compressed contrast range between points of bright and

dark,

> it is best to keep portraits within. Today, this is called "low contrast"
> but really it's just altering the lighting and subject in the highlights

and

> shadows so both contain full or near full detail.
>
> Russell was right about the single flash behind the subject. This is

called

> a slave and fortunately the camera you have and a Sigma or Canon flash can
> fire off a slave remotely. If you have one of these flashes, it has a
> diffusion cover for wide angle photos.
>
> This is also very good for softening the subject and if you have the two
> (Canon or Sigma) flashes... Use the most powerful behind the subject about

1

> meter or so from them and out of view. You should experiment with forward
> facing and rear facing the flash.
>
> 100mm focal length for 35 mm or about 75mm for the 10D will produce very
> pleasing appearances and if you pull focus on the nose or eyes with a very
> wide aperture, it will help to blur anything in the background, like

shadow

> edges. Meter for the face or any bright areas because the 10D seems to

still

> have detail in the shadows but never in blown highlights. The trick is to
> blow the background away with the hi-powered flash and still have a softly
> lit model.
>
> One of the most pleasing portraits I saw one of my students take (20 years
> ago) was when Minolta release their first auto focus camera. The student

put

> a 240 volt slave (GN 32) flash 22 mm from the girl's head and used the
> camera mounted (GN 8) flash with a paper bag over it to set off the slave.
> Neither of these flashes had any controls other than on or off. I have

used

> an opaque curtain for a back drop with a slave flash behind it with good
> results too.
>
> Many people in the past when money was hard to get and an automatic camera
> was at the top end of the price range... Built their own studio flashes. I
> used to make them from a stainless steel salad bowl with a "modeling

light"

> (a 100 watt globe) in the middle with a bracket to hold a flash slave so

it

> fired into the bowl. There's no reason why this can't be done with a

decent

> battery powered flash. I can e-mail you a sketch of one if you are a bit
> handy and would like to give it a go.
>
> JT.
>
>
> "Admiral" <kdick@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
> news:84wLa.448$mq3.6363@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

> > Hi,
> >
> > I've finally set a date to do something i've been wanting to do for ages
> > now, which is to take some (hopefully) nice shots of all my friends, and

a

> > couple of attractive women.
> >
> > Unfortunately i've never done ANY portrait shots before, and while I

know

> in

> > my head exactly the look i'm going for, and what I want to achieve, i'm

> not

> > exactly sure on the best way of making it happen.

> sniped!
>
>

[Russell Stewart]

> For the background light, would a strong strobe _behind_ the background

> work, assuming it's just thin white fabric?

It should do provided that you overexpose the background to blow out any of
the fabrics structure.

You may be able to hire a roll of white paper backdrop too.... What I used
was a white projector screen. It was too small for large groups, but for
bust shots it was great... it was portable, compact and had it's own built
in stand. After a while I replaced the screen itself with paper backdrop
rolled onto the original screen spool.... it was great for the out and about
"corporate heads" that I use to do.

You may want to ask if the hire mob have gels also. This will allow you to
have some fun by changing the colour of the background on some of the shots.

[Gavin Cato]

If you've got some time with the good lookers, take them outside somewhere
reasonably scenic, i.e. a nice park or a beach or similar, and get a nice
sized reflector (I use a gold one mostly) and get one of the girls to act as
your assistant by holding the reflector whilst you photograph the other.

Bring along a flash, but only use it if you need to, I've found often the
reflector is good enough at getting rid of shadows over the face.

What lenses are you going to use? In Nikon land I usually use either the
60mm macro lens or if I want a bit of working distance I use the 70-200,
although it looks like I'm pointing a bazooka at them the results are great.

Gav





"Admiral" <kdick@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:84wLa.448$mq3.6363@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

> Hi,
>
> I've finally set a date to do something i've been wanting to do for ages
> now, which is to take some (hopefully) nice shots of all my friends, and a
> couple of attractive women.
>
> Unfortunately i've never done ANY portrait shots before, and while I know

in

> my head exactly the look i'm going for, and what I want to achieve, i'm

not

> exactly sure on the best way of making it happen.
>
> What I want to do is get some 3/4 length photos of my friends, against a
> plain white background. The background has to be really white though, and
> with no discernable texture or shadows from lights/flashes. I'm sure

you've

> seen the type of photos i'm talking about.
>
> I've also lined up two absolutely gorgeous girls who are happy to spend a
> few hours with me and pose. I'll probably try several styles with them,

not

> just the plain white background thing. Hopefully I can keep shutter speeds
> up to a level where my shaky hands won't be obvious. =0)
>
> Basically i'm looking for some suggestions on lighting for the weekend. I
> forsee myself hiring some gear, and I have access to a large area suitable
> for shooting in. What sort of lighting should I get for the white

background

> shots? I really want to nail these ones, with no shadows and a WHITE
> background.
>
> I'd appreciate any help you could throw at me,
>
> -A
>
>
>

[Auspics]

Yes...
I used some "fiberglass" curtain backing and fired behind it. You can get
some varied effects by moving the strobe further bact.
JT
-------
"Admiral" <kdick@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:84yLa.539$mq3.7894@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

> Thanks very much JT, it's replies like yours and Russells that make me
> really appreciate the people in this newsgroup.
>
> For the background light, would a strong strobe _behind_ the background
> work, assuming it's just thin white fabric?
>
> -A

[Julian Mattay]

[posted and mailed]

G'day Admiral,

(Tossed out your original message before I thought of this) Do you really
want to do 3/4 shots? I my opinion (from a bit of experience of wedding
photography for one of the pro photographers here) 3/4 shots look a bit
crappy, I'd go for 1/2 or full length, but then again you did say you've
got the pics you want in your mind.

Cheers,
Julian


--
Julian Mattay, email: julian dot mattay at csiro dot au
Local IT Bloke
CSIRO, Forestry and Forest Products Ph: +61 8 8721 8118
Mt Gambier, South Australia, Australia Fax: +61 8 8723 9058

[Nige]

Can't remember seeing anything posted related to your DOF. To make sure
your backdrop is un-noticable, get it away from your sitter as far as
possible (size of room, backdrop and lens focal length all come into play)
and don't stop down your lens to some silly number. I usually use f5.6.
Get a DOF calcluator like fCalc to see what your dealing with.

Cheers, Nige

[paul cavka]

My studio is pretty long so I don't know if you have the same sort of
space. To do what you're describing, I'd just use anything white as a
backdrop, hit it with two strobes at 45 degrees. Move my sitters forward
about 8 feet or so. I'd shoot it with a slightly longer lens, maybe an
85mm on digital.

We don't even have a proper white backdop (have many other colours but
just not white). So we mostly just stick really wide butchers paper on
the wall. You'll never know the difference if you blow it out enough.
Not too much though, otherwise you'll get too much light wash back and
you won't have any clear outline of your sitter.


Paul.

In <84yLa.539$mq3.7894@news-server.bigpond.net.au> Admiral wrote:

> Thanks very much JT, it's replies like yours and Russells that make me
> really appreciate the people in this newsgroup.
>
> For the background light, would a strong strobe _behind_ the
> background work, assuming it's just thin white fabric?
>
> -A
>
> "Auspics" <just@the.groups> wrote in message
> news:dcxLa.506$mq3.6948@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

>> The background you want to use is the type which causes the most
>> problems with automatic cameras. Camera exposure meters are averaging
>> devices. The average everything out so the average exposure of all
>> metered points is equal to about 18% grey.
>>
>> There is also a compressed contrast range between points of bright
>> and

> dark,

>> it is best to keep portraits within. Today, this is called "low
>> contrast" but really it's just altering the lighting and subject in
>> the highlights

> and

>> shadows so both contain full or near full detail.
>>
>> Russell was right about the single flash behind the subject. This is

> called

>> a slave and fortunately the camera you have and a Sigma or Canon
>> flash can fire off a slave remotely. If you have one of these flashes,
>> it has a diffusion cover for wide angle photos.
>>
>> This is also very good for softening the subject and if you have the
>> two (Canon or Sigma) flashes... Use the most powerful behind the
>> subject about

> 1

>> meter or so from them and out of view. You should experiment with
>> forward facing and rear facing the flash.
>>
>> 100mm focal length for 35 mm or about 75mm for the 10D will produce
>> very pleasing appearances and if you pull focus on the nose or eyes
>> with a very wide aperture, it will help to blur anything in the
>> background, like

> shadow

>> edges. Meter for the face or any bright areas because the 10D seems
>> to

> still

>> have detail in the shadows but never in blown highlights. The trick
>> is to blow the background away with the hi-powered flash and still
>> have a softly lit model.
>>
>> One of the most pleasing portraits I saw one of my students take (20
>> years ago) was when Minolta release their first auto focus camera.
>> The student

> put

>> a 240 volt slave (GN 32) flash 22 mm from the girl's head and used
>> the camera mounted (GN 8) flash with a paper bag over it to set off
>> the slave. Neither of these flashes had any controls other than on or
>> off. I have

> used

>> an opaque curtain for a back drop with a slave flash behind it with
>> good results too.
>>
>> Many people in the past when money was hard to get and an automatic
>> camera was at the top end of the price range... Built their own
>> studio flashes. I used to make them from a stainless steel salad bowl
>> with a "modeling

> light"

>> (a 100 watt globe) in the middle with a bracket to hold a flash slave
>> so

> it

>> fired into the bowl. There's no reason why this can't be done with a

> decent

>> battery powered flash. I can e-mail you a sketch of one if you are a
>> bit handy and would like to give it a go.
>>
>> JT.
>>
>>
>> "Admiral" <kdick@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
>> news:84wLa.448$mq3.6363@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I've finally set a date to do something i've been wanting to do for
>> > ages now, which is to take some (hopefully) nice shots of all my
>> > friends, and

> a

>> > couple of attractive women.
>> >
>> > Unfortunately i've never done ANY portrait shots before, and while
>> > I

> know

>> in

>> > my head exactly the look i'm going for, and what I want to achieve,
>> > i'm

>> not

>> > exactly sure on the best way of making it happen.

>> sniped!
>>
>>

>
>
>