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Thinking about D70... Need advice - Photography

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    Default Thinking about D70... Need advice

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  4. #4

    Default Re: Thinking about D70... Need advice

    RONKELI wrote: 
    beat 

    <cough> As has been discussed earlier on the NG, Ken Rockwell is a guy
    with the magical power to review cameras without ever touching them. So
    his reviews are worth almost ______ </cough>

    Siddhartha Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: Thinking about D70... Need advice

    On 14 Jan 2005 02:38:28 -0800, "Siddhartha Jain"
    <co.uk> wrote:
     
    >beat 
    >
    ><cough> As has been discussed earlier on the NG, Ken Rockwell is a guy
    >with the magical power to review cameras without ever touching them. So
    >his reviews are worth almost ______ </cough>[/ref]

    I haven't investigated this yet, but that last claim I saw about Ken
    never having touched the equipment he reviewed assumed that different
    pages of Ken's website were written in a particular order (ie, the
    review of a camera page was *OLDER* than the different page that
    claims he hasn't picked on up).

    If this is the case, the claim is floored.

    Ken has some strong opinions, and his reviews would be more acceptable
    if he saw the world in shades of gray instead of black & white. He's a
    man with pure caffeine running through his veins.

    --
    Owamanga!
    Owamanga Guest

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  7. #7

    Default Re: Thinking about D70... Need advice

    Owamanga wrote: 

    Snip from http://kenrockwell.com/canon/1dsii.htm posted on 20th
    december' 04.
    -------------snip begin-----------------------
    Like most things from Canon I'll presume it works great. I have not
    played with one.

    16 megapixels is no big deal compared with 8 megapixels, see The
    Megapixel Myth.

    If you have work to shoot today by all means get one. It will give
    spectacular results. If you're not a full time pro just know that the
    photos you make with this are going to look the same as whatever else
    you're shooting today.

    Don't get one if you have to go out on a limb to afford it. It's not a
    big deal. You are paying a stiff premium over cameras with very similar
    performance.
    ------------snip end-------------------------

    The guy makes several assertions. If I made similar assertions, I would
    expect people to believe me if I tested a 16MP vs 8MP, posted some
    objective tests and parameters and then gave a conclusion.


    Snip from http://kenrockwell.com/canon/20d.htm posted on 16th december'
    04
    -------------snip begin-----------------------
    Watch the flash performance. My friends own several Canon 1D-MkIIs and
    they HATE the poor flash exposure control. This means they always have
    to tweak with the flash settings to get a decent result. By comparison
    the Nikon D70 is extremely good. The one or two shots I made were fine.
    ------------snip end-------------------------

    Ok, so we are to believe what your friends say? And you took a large
    sample of "one or two shots" to come to conclusion about the flash.

    As a reader, I am interested in conclusions of various reviews posted
    on the net. What I am more interested is in is your testing process and
    methodology. If your process and methodology consists of hearsay, one
    or two shots and having never touched the camera then I wouldn't go
    about quoting this guy's reviews on any NG, in the least.

    - Siddhartha

    Siddhartha Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: Thinking about D70... Need advice


    "Siddhartha Jain" <co.uk> wrote in message
    news:googlegroups.com...
    | Owamanga wrote:
    | > I haven't investigated this yet, but that last claim I saw about Ken
    | > never having touched the equipment he reviewed assumed that different
    | > pages of Ken's website were written in a particular order (ie, the
    | > review of a camera page was *OLDER* than the different page that
    | > claims he hasn't picked on up).
    |
    | Snip from http://kenrockwell.com/canon/1dsii.htm posted on 20th
    | december' 04.
    | -------------snip begin-----------------------
    | Like most things from Canon I'll presume it works great. I have not
    | played with one.
    | | ------------snip end-------------------------
    |


    | -------------snip begin-----------------------
    | Watch the flash performance. My friends own several Canon 1D-MkIIs and
    | they HATE the poor flash exposure control.
    | ------------snip end-------------------------
    |
    | Ok, so we are to believe what your friends say? And you took a large
    | sample of "one or two shots" to come to conclusion about the flash.
    |
    | As a reader, I am interested in conclusions of various reviews posted
    | on the net. What I am more interested is in is your testing process and
    | methodology. If your process and methodology consists of hearsay, one
    | or two shots and having never touched the camera then I wouldn't go
    | about quoting this guy's reviews on any NG, in the least.
    |
    | - Siddhartha
    |

    Mr. Rockwell sounds like the Bill Murray character on "Saturday Night Live"
    from way back when--the movie reviewer who reviewed movies that he hadn't
    seen.

    Rick


    Rick Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: Thinking about D70... Need advice

    On 14 Jan 2005 06:00:58 -0800, "Siddhartha Jain"
    <co.uk> wrote:
     
    >
    >Snip from http://kenrockwell.com/canon/1dsii.htm posted on 20th
    >december' 04.
    >-------------snip begin-----------------------
    >Like most things from Canon I'll presume it works great. I have not
    >played with one.
    >
    >16 megapixels is no big deal compared with 8 megapixels, see The
    >Megapixel Myth.
    >
    >If you have work to shoot today by all means get one. It will give
    >spectacular results. If you're not a full time pro just know that the
    >photos you make with this are going to look the same as whatever else
    >you're shooting today.
    >
    >Don't get one if you have to go out on a limb to afford it. It's not a
    >big deal. You are paying a stiff premium over cameras with very similar
    >performance.
    >------------snip end-------------------------
    >
    >The guy makes several assertions. If I made similar assertions, I would
    >expect people to believe me if I tested a 16MP vs 8MP, posted some
    >objective tests and parameters and then gave a conclusion.
    >
    >
    >Snip from http://kenrockwell.com/canon/20d.htm posted on 16th december'
    >04
    >-------------snip begin-----------------------
    >Watch the flash performance. My friends own several Canon 1D-MkIIs and
    >they HATE the poor flash exposure control. This means they always have
    >to tweak with the flash settings to get a decent result. By comparison
    >the Nikon D70 is extremely good. The one or two shots I made were fine.
    >------------snip end-------------------------
    >
    >Ok, so we are to believe what your friends say? And you took a large
    >sample of "one or two shots" to come to conclusion about the flash.
    >
    >As a reader, I am interested in conclusions of various reviews posted
    >on the net. What I am more interested is in is your testing process and
    >methodology. If your process and methodology consists of hearsay, one
    >or two shots and having never touched the camera then I wouldn't go
    >about quoting this guy's reviews on any NG, in the least.[/ref]

    Okay, so the guy is honest, owns up to not having used one and
    produces a very short review.

    I've never posted a link to this review of Ken's, and I agree, it's
    fairly worthless. I don't believe I have ever posted a link to any of
    Ken's reviews without also providing a number of alternatives.

    He is crazy, but makes a number of interesting points, therefore I
    don't agree with you that just because of one rather shabby review
    that everything else he says should be discounted. We all make
    mistakes.

    For example, on the 6th Jan you made a claim that digicams only use 8
    bits per channel, and well, you were basically wrong. That doesn't
    mean we should discount your further posts does it?

    <g>

    ... and I am not perfect either ..

    --
    Owamanga!
    Owamanga Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: Thinking about D70... Need advice

    Owamanga wrote: 
    Just being honest does not help if your review is worthless.
     
    Read the rest of the reviews. I agree that all comments made by a
    person should not be discounted because of some of the comments made by
    the person are baseless. But then the credibility of such a person
    isn't much either.
     
    Yes, and on being corrected, I readily owned up to making a mistake. Do
    you see any such retraction at Mr.Rockwell's site or postings?

    "RONKELI" made a reference to Mr.Rockwell's site as a basis for his
    assertion. I merely pointed out that the particular reviwer wasn't
    credible enough to be quoted any NG, in my opinion, given his rather
    unique testing methodology.

    - Siddhartha

    Siddhartha Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: Thinking about D70... Need advice


    "Sheldon" <net> wrote in message
    news:com... 

    Very strange. While I can't say much for the sharpness of digital pictures
    in general, I think the D70 does very well. Digital photos are generally not
    as sharp as film -- I think Nikon said it would take a 19Mp camera to
    achieve even the resolution of ISO 100 film. Nevertheless, digital has much
    greater color depth than film, which can give the appearance of a very sharp
    image at normal viewing distances.

    I have a tough time imagining any P&S that could compete with the D70. The
    D70 has a bigger sensor than any P&S and it has far better lenses. I suspect
    that the reviewer didn't know what he was doing. How much can PC World know
    about cameras, anyway? Check out www.dpreview.com for some real test
    pictures.

    Dust on the sensor is a problem with all digital SLRs, but not a big one. It
    is easily removed with a er bulb. If you get dust during a shoot it will
    show up on your pictures, but it is easily corrected in post processing.
    People talk argue about what to do with "hard to remove" dust or stains, but
    honestly, if you don't go poking your fingers around in there you are not
    going to get anything like that on your sensor. Sure, you might get salt on
    your sensor -- if you change lenses while standing on the bow of a pitching
    fishing boat with spray flying all over you and the camera pointed directly
    into the spray. So don't do that.

    On the whole, I don't think you are ready for a digital SLR. It sounds to me
    like you are setting yourself up for a big disappointment. Digital is not
    better or worse than film, but it is different. If you perceive these
    differences as worse, you are not going to like digital. If you are not
    willing to take the time with post processing or you don't like regaining
    the creative control that photographers used to enjoy with black and white,
    digital is not for you.


    C Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: Thinking about D70... Need advice


    "Owamanga" <com> wrote in message
    news:com... 

    But good enough for government work.


    C Guest

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  15. #15

    Default Re: Thinking about D70... Need advice

    Sheldon wrote: 

    The 8MP cameras are sharper and they automatically include a lot of
    sharpening & image contrast in-camera. A DSLR is going to look fuzzy &
    washed out until you work on it in photoshop some but it's going to take
    more rich photos ultimately with the larger sensor plus it has a really
    advanced metering & flexibility to add lenses. If you've done geeky
    photography before you probably will have the patience to learn the
    digital darkroom techniques. If you dread computers, I'm not sure a DSLR
    is all that great.
    paul Guest

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  17. #17

    Default Re: Thinking about D70... Need advice


    "sid derra" <net> wrote in message
    news:net... [/ref]

    You can't put a 6-megapixel image on a web page (or a computer screen) at
    full resolution. Anything you see on the Web has been downsampled to less
    than a megapixel.


    mc Guest

  18. #18

    Default Re: Thinking about D70... Need advice

     
    >
    > Don't look at photos on the net! Look at photos out of the camera... I
    > can
    > Email you something if you like... un-touched...[/ref]

    Well, I used to work with all black and white and do all my own processing
    and printing of 16x20 and 20x24 prints, so I was definitely a camera geek,
    and miss the "hobby" part of the equation. I also did a lot of my own color
    processing and mixed up my own developers for pushing film speed. I'm going
    to call Nikon and see if my older lenses will fit, that will probably make a
    difference, but what I like about the D70 is the fact that I can take action
    photos with it (one of the few digital cameras that will), and I used to do
    that professionally. I also don't mind getting out a light meter now and
    then.

    I would love to see a jpeg image from your D70. Could you send me a macro
    of a flower or something that has a lot of detail in it? That would be
    great. I'll also try to hit the camera store and see if they'll let me fire
    off a few shots with a D70 and some high-end P&S cameras I've been looking
    at.

    Thanks for your insight.

    Sheldon
    net


    Sheldon Guest

  19. #19

    Default Re: Thinking about D70... Need advice

    On 14 Jan 2005 in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems, Sheldon wrote:
     

    Take a Compact Flash card for the D70 and whatever the P&S use when you
    do this. If you really like to tinker, also make sure you fire off a
    couple in Raw mode. D70 raw files take up just under 6 meg; large basic
    ..jpgs are about 750K.

    --
    Joe Makowiec
    http://makowiec.org/
    Email: http://makowiec.org/contact/?Joe
    Joe Guest

  20. #20

    Default Re: Thinking about D70... Need advice

    Thanks for the advice.


    "Joe Makowiec" <invalid> wrote in message
    news:24.2.166... 
    >
    > Take a Compact Flash card for the D70 and whatever the P&S use when you
    > do this. If you really like to tinker, also make sure you fire off a
    > couple in Raw mode. D70 raw files take up just under 6 meg; large basic
    > .jpgs are about 750K.
    >
    > --
    > Joe Makowiec
    > http://makowiec.org/
    > Email: http://makowiec.org/contact/?Joe[/ref]


    Sheldon Guest

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