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Tony "Do nothing". - SCO

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    Default Tony "Do nothing".

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    FyRE Guest
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    Default Re: Tony "Do nothing".

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    tony@aplawrence.com Guest
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Tony "Do nothing".

    On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:49:09 +0000, FyRE <demon.ku.oc.x>
    wrote:
     

    I've worked with SCO, sold their products, and serviced SCO based
    systems since the early daze of Xenix 86. My guess(tm) is about 1985.
    That's 18 years during which SCO has not ed me once. (Well,
    they've come close, but saw the error of their ways at the last
    moment). I do not have a single vendor that has maintained a quality
    relationship for so long. I've had short relationships with IBM
    (BESTeam), Radio Shock, Dell, Novell, Sun, Red Hat, Apple, and several
    software vendors. All have done stupid things which affect my
    relationship. I'm not prepared to burn 18 years of good service,
    quality product, and personal enrichment (I need the money) simply
    because a clueless president, and his minion of ScoSource accomplices
    has embarked on a litigatory windmill tilting adventure. Nor am I
    willing to abandon 18 years of experience, education, and SCO product
    knowledge because of their recent actions. Take away one litigatory
    president and his accomplices and you have left a good company with a
    good product. Abandoning all that overnight is not my idea of cheap.

    It's difficult to separate loyalty to the company, loyalty to the
    product, and loyalty to the present management. I think it can be
    done, but you seem to lack the ability. Tony is not a hand-wringer.
    In the past he's been one of the more vocal critics of SCO management.
    I don't think his loyalty can be bought at any price.

    If you read the words, instead of reading between the lines, you'll
    notice that not one single person in this newsgroup has supported the
    current lititigation. The closest approximation is that SCO has the
    right to protect its intellectual property. The precise manner in
    which to protect it is subject to much debate. However, nobody has
    stood up and said "Daryl McBride is right". If anything, there has
    been univeral disgust at the allegations and general disapproval of
    the methods employed.

    Meanwhile, since you've degenerated into attacking people instead of
    ideas, may I again suggest that you refrain from engaging in personal
    attacks and kindly deal with issues, opinions, and facts. If you
    expect the entire newsgroup to instantly abandon SCO products and
    follow the yellow brick road toward enlightenment and Linux, kindly
    act in a manner that would not put you on par with Daryl McBride and
    cease with the labels and character assassinations.


    --
    # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
    # 831.336.2558 voice http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    # santa-cruz.ca.us
    # 831.421.6491 digital_pager com AE6KS
    Jeff Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: Tony "Do nothing".

    On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:23:14 GMT, Jeff Liebermann
    <santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
     
    >
    >I've worked with SCO, sold their products, and serviced SCO based
    >systems since the early daze of Xenix 86. My guess(tm) is about 1985.
    >That's 18 years during which SCO has not ed me once. (Well,
    >they've come close, but saw the error of their ways at the last
    >moment). I do not have a single vendor that has maintained a quality
    >relationship for so long.[/ref]


    Did I miss something here? You had a relationship with SCO (now
    Tarantella), then you had a relationship with Caldera after they bought
    the Unix assets of SCO. It's not and never was the same company.

    Now, there may have been a continuity of some employees, but not a
    continuity of the top level management. So I don't see it as an 18 year
    relationship. Why do you?
    Joe Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: Tony "Do nothing".

    Jeff Liebermann <santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote: 
     [/ref]
     
     

    I'll take bids.

    Actually, I'm still a critic of SCO's management. They seem to do
    very little to help themselves, and a lot that only hurts.

     

    I'm not sure if "disapproval" is exactly the right word.

    I think this suit is foolish, and dangerous,
    but it's not my place to disapprove. This is SCO's managements
    choice, right or wrong.
     


    Oh, let him get it off his chest. I don't mind being called names.
    He's very angry, and that is certainly understandable. What he can't
    understand is that just because someone es you off doesn't
    mean they don't have a right to do whatever it is they are doing.

    If I had Darl McBrides ear, I'd tell him he is being a damn fool, and
    will do more damage to himself than anything he could hope to gain. But
    I do understand that if Darl really thinks he's been ripped off, it's
    hard to convince him to lay down and take it.

    Joe is angry. I'm angry. Joe thinks his anger rules the world, that
    HIS opinions are what everyone else should follow. I know better. The
    world will think what it likes.


    --
    com Unix/Linux/Mac OS X resources: http://aplawrence.com
    Get paid for writing about tech: http://aplawrence.com/publish.html
    tony@aplawrence.com Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: Tony "Do nothing".

    Joe Dunning <invalid> wrote: 
     
    >>
    >>I've worked with SCO, sold their products, and serviced SCO based
    >>systems since the early daze of Xenix 86. My guess(tm) is about 1985.
    >>That's 18 years during which SCO has not ed me once. (Well,
    >>they've come close, but saw the error of their ways at the last
    >>moment). I do not have a single vendor that has maintained a quality
    >>relationship for so long.[/ref][/ref]

     
     

    Gawd.

    Joe: WE DON'T HAVE RELATIONSHIPS WITH MANAGEMENT. We sell, support,
    or use the PRODUCT. The PRODUCT, Joe, the PRODUCT.

    I'll say it again, because your retention seems to be short: I
    support SCO systems because it's a good market for me. There are LOTS
    of SCO systems out there in small businesses that often don't
    have in house support staff, and many of them have been abandoned
    by the original seller (due mostly to stupid actions by SCO
    management). I'm also Enterprise Certified in Solaris, but that's
    generally larger companies that want longer engagements: I like
    to work a few hours here, a few hours there. I can also do MSOFT, but
    I dislike their crap and the money is nowhere near as good.

    I don't "love" SCO Unix, Linux, Solaris or anything. I am
    a fan of Unix in general, and SCO has been a good market for me
    to be in. As long as it continues to be, I'll keep working in it.

    Got it?

    --
    com Unix/Linux/Mac OS X resources: http://aplawrence.com
    Get paid for writing about tech: http://aplawrence.com/publish.html
    tony@aplawrence.com Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: Tony "Do nothing".

    On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:10:19 +0000 (UTC), com
    <com> wrote:
     
    >

    >
    >
    >Oh, let him get it off his chest. I don't mind being called names.
    >He's very angry, and that is certainly understandable. What he can't
    >understand is that just because someone es you off doesn't
    >mean they don't have a right to do whatever it is they are doing.
    >
    >Joe is angry. I'm angry. Joe thinks his anger rules the world, that
    >HIS opinions are what everyone else should follow. I know better. The
    >world will think what it likes.[/ref]

    Tony,

    Try reading, would you? This thread was started by FyRE. Look at the
    attributions in the postings. None of the parents of this post were
    written by me. I have no idea who FyRE is, except that he and I are not
    the same person.

    Oh, and I do recognise everyone's rights to have dissenting opinions.
    What I dislike is those who want to discuss a topic, and to defend the
    actions of others, yet shelter behind equivocation.
    Joe Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: Tony "Do nothing".

    Joe Dunning <invalid> wrote: 
     
    >>
    >> 
    >>
    >>
    >>Oh, let him get it off his chest. I don't mind being called names.
    >>He's very angry, and that is certainly understandable. What he can't
    >>understand is that just because someone es you off doesn't
    >>mean they don't have a right to do whatever it is they are doing.
    >>
    >>Joe is angry. I'm angry. Joe thinks his anger rules the world, that
    >>HIS opinions are what everyone else should follow. I know better. The
    >>world will think what it likes.[/ref][/ref]
     
     

    You sound like the same person. Bull-headed, constantly harping
    at the same thing over and over again.
     

    Um, Joe: just what do you consider equivocation? Once more:

    If IBM released SCO that SCO controls, SCO has a right to pursue
    damages.

    I don't know whether the alleged code really is in violation or
    not. I've never seen it (nor have you) and I'm not qualified
    to comment on its ancestry anyway.

    I doubt that the wild conspiracy theories are true, but admit that
    they are certainly not impossible. I think it's quite possible
    that SCO is confused and has incorrectly identified the source of
    the alleged code, but it's also possible that they have a real
    case.

    No matter which of these is actually true, I think SCO has done
    a very foolish and dangerous act by this suit, and has now
    compounded it by attacking the GPL. I think they will regret
    this deeply. I fear that this can do real damage to everyone
    but Microsoft, who only stands to gain from it.

    What's equivocal about that, Joe?

    --
    com Unix/Linux/Mac OS X resources: http://aplawrence.com
    Get paid for writing about tech: http://aplawrence.com/publish.html
    tony@aplawrence.com Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: Tony "Do nothing".

    com wrote: [/ref]
     [/ref][/ref]
     [/ref]
     [/ref]
     
     [/ref]
     
     
     
     
     
     

    I have to wonder what Joe would be saying if I actually DID have
    an opinion about the origin of this code and the validity of the
    GPL?

    Tell me, Joe, wouldn't you then say "You've never seen it. What makes
    you an expert on code history? You aren't a lawyer, how dare
    you have an opinion on the GPL?"

    Right, Joe? Let's be honest Joe: Unless I agree with you, you
    are going to complain.

    --
    com Unix/Linux/Mac OS X resources: http://aplawrence.com
    Get paid for writing about tech: http://aplawrence.com/publish.html
    tony@aplawrence.com Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: Tony "Do nothing".

    On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:46:10 +0000 (UTC), com
    <com> wrote:
     
    >
    >You sound like the same person. Bull-headed, constantly harping
    >at the same thing over and over again.
    >[/ref]

    Try looking at the headers. You will see that FyRE is posting from the
    UK (Demon Internet, now owned by Tiscali, I think) while I am posting
    from a Comcast (former Attbi) IP address. One of us could be using a
    proxy, of course.

    Attention to details can be important!
    Joe Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: Tony "Do nothing".

    On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 23:33:34 GMT, invalid (Joe Dunning)
    wrote:
     

    Thanks for ignoring everything I had to say and hair splitting on the
    name of the company and the length of the relationship. I will
    conceed that the name has changed in the last 3 years. Therefore,
    please ammend my posting and change 18 years to 15 years. It's still
    a substantial amount of time.
     

    As Tony indicated, it's the product, not the management.

    --
    # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
    # 831.336.2558 voice http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    # santa-cruz.ca.us
    # 831.421.6491 digital_pager com AE6KS
    Jeff Guest

  12. #12

    Default RE: Tony "Do nothing".

    Jeff Liebermann wrote: [/ref]

    Joe Dunning wrote: 

    I've had the same checking account number at my bank for close to
    15 years. It has been so long I can't remember the name of the
    bank when I first opened the account. To that matter, I can't
    remember the second. However, the third name was NationsBank.
    Now, it is Bank of America. Different owners; some new people;
    some old people. ONE relationship. I certianly see Jeff's
    point of it being an 18 year relationship with SCO.

    Bill
    Bill Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: Tony "Do nothing".

    On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:19:02 +0000 (UTC), com wrote:

    [...]
     [/ref]

    >
    >No, you misunderstand my point. I'm trying to get you to understand
    >that for many of us, the death of SCO could actually represent an
    >income opportunity. The reason we don't relish that thought is that
    >most of us prefer to earn our bread not from someone else's misery.[/ref]

    Well there it is, you've said it. You'd "prefer" not to profit from
    misery, however you're too craven to actually stand up and refuse to
    aide and abet a *proven* bunch of liars and apparent criminals. And
    before you start claiming there's no proof that SCO are downright
    liars, check Groklaw's extensive archives of the exec's press
    conference quotes. It's so blatant now that's it's actually funny! I
    think in the latest episode of this farce, they've been claiming
    they've never accused IBM of anything, when the evidence is right
    there; only a few weeks old! It's like watching a pack of diseased
    rats, cornered and scrabbling desparately to climb the walls and out
    of this court case ;-)
     
    >
    >Boopy, you are singing the same song I am. I am very concerned about
    >this, and have been saying so since day one: SCO is making a terrible
    >mistake here, because if Linux dies, Microsoft will pick off what's
    >left of Unix with ease. That SCO has a legal RIGHT to do this is
    >the point you refuse to accept.[/ref]

    Again with the apologies; it's hard for me to have any respect for a
    man who lacks conviction, Tony. You're afraid to pick a side, since it
    may diminish your chances of posting reams of "told ya so" articles
    after this is over. I refuse to accept that SCO have a right to claim
    the GPL is invalid, and all the code written under it (including my
    own) should be put into the public domain. Sure, if you want to play
    the non-commital armchair lawyer, then you could argue that anyone has
    a right to take anything to court. You could (and no doubt would)
    argue that a child molestor should be able to sue the state for an
    unpriviledged upbringing. You may well state that a wife beater could
    have been provoked, so may have a case for dismissal.

    Luckily, some people do stand up for what's right, Tony, while you
    skulk in the shadows, terrified to take a position in case it hit you
    in the wallet.

    BTW, IBM have *stated* that they are fully aware that Microsoft ARE
    funding this ridiculous legal charade. This probably explains the
    sheer amount of money being wasted by SCO when they themselves are now
    claiming they need time to gather their evidence (after claiming some
    months ago that they have this "million lines of code" that had been
    pilfered ;-) Still think SCO are "right" to do this? And no "well,
    it's regretable", or "I'd tell Darl this was a naughty thing to do"
    from you Tony. Be a man for a change, and take a stand... At this
    moment you're no different to a "concerned parent" worried about the
    cancer risks from smoking, then two hours later standing behind the
    counter of a tobacconist shop, taking the cash from a 12 year old in
    exchange for a pack of smokes with a big grin on your face...
     
    >
    >Of course you would. But then you have never actually paid any
    >attention to a single thing I've said.[/ref]

    On the contrary, every time you post, it's more coroboration for my
    arguments...

    --
    FyRE < "War: The way Americans learn geography" >
    FyRE Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: Tony "Do nothing".

     

    Why are you two even attempting to placate these trolls?


    David Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: Tony "Do nothing".

    David Chait <stanford.edu> wrote:
     [/ref]
     

    Because if somebody doesn't refute them, some newbie is going
    to assume that everyone is in agreement with their nonsense.


    --
    com Unix/Linux/Mac OS X resources: http://aplawrence.com
    Get paid for writing about tech: http://aplawrence.com/publish.html


    tony@aplawrence.com Guest

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    Default Re: Tony "Do nothing".

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    Bill Guest
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