Total newbie: ASP.NET or Coldfusion ?

[Kevin Spencer]

If you look at the difference in terms of power, ASP.Net is simply the most
powerful web application platform ever to be created. It also is supported
by Dreamweaver MX.

HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft FrontPage MVP
Internet Developer
[url]http://www.takempis.com[/url]
Big things are made up of
lots of Little things.

"Yasso Picasso" <okcrapme@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4dnjfvcedenoapu6sj7kd7c8bcvm9ptfv9@4ax.com...

> Greetings,
>
> Will anyone please give me an HONEST answer to the question of whether
> I should study ASP.NET or Coldfusion? Based on the fact that I'm a
> total newbie to either. I just wanna start with databases.
>
> But I'm already a web designer, and have used Macromedia products like
> Fireworks, Flash, and Dreamweaver for years already. And I just want
> to start getting myself into databases to increase my skills and also
> explore this field. I am a fan of Macromedia, but this does not mean
> that I will just blindly choose to go for Coldfusion. A friend of mine
> has recommended ASP.NET, and not Coldfusion. But I want to hear other
> opinions. But please, make your answer very honest, unbiased in a
> romanticist way...just based on facts and honest, straightforward
> comparison.
>
> My question is not only concered with ease of use or speed only, for
> instance. I actually want to include the demand for professionals in
> both, the market share of both, what kind of companies require either
> and why, is the integration with other Macromedia products like Flash,
> Fireworks, and Dreamweaver (which I already know) worth the decision
> of going for Coldfusion rather than ASP.NET even if Coldfusion falls
> short in a few things, many other related questions too. I would
> appreciate a smart and convincing and to-the-point answer.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Yasso
>
> P.S. If this is not the right newsgroup to post, please direct me to
> the right one and sorry for the inconvenience.

[smurphy]

>-----Original Message-----

>Greetings,
>
>Will anyone please give me an HONEST answer to the

question of whether

>I should study ASP.NET or Coldfusion? Based on the fact

that I'm a

>total newbie to either. I just wanna start with databases.
>
>But I'm already a web designer, and have used Macromedia

products like

>Fireworks, Flash, and Dreamweaver for years already. And

I just want

>to start getting myself into databases to increase my

skills and also

>explore this field. I am a fan of Macromedia, but this

does not mean

>that I will just blindly choose to go for Coldfusion. A

friend of mine

>has recommended ASP.NET, and not Coldfusion. But I want

to hear other

>opinions. But please, make your answer very honest,

unbiased in a

>romanticist way...just based on facts and honest,

straightforward

>comparison.
>
>My question is not only concered with ease of use or

speed only, for

>instance. I actually want to include the demand for

professionals in

>both, the market share of both, what kind of companies

require either

>and why, is the integration with other Macromedia

products like Flash,

>Fireworks, and Dreamweaver (which I already know) worth

the decision

>of going for Coldfusion rather than ASP.NET even if

Coldfusion falls

>short in a few things, many other related questions too.

I would

>appreciate a smart and convincing and to-the-point answer.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Yasso
>
>P.S. If this is not the right newsgroup to post, please

direct me to

>the right one and sorry for the inconvenience.
>.
>

..NET is the way to go. The learning curve for Coldfusion
is much steeper.

[Joe Iano]

In my opinion, for those without a programming background, CF is *much*
easier to learn than ASP or ASP.Net.
CF requires extra server software. IIS is easy to come by.
..Net is a more powerful platform. You would have to combine CF with Java to
get something comparable.
The long-time CF programmers I know are moving to other platforms due to
performance limitations in CF.

"Yasso Picasso" <okcrapme@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4dnjfvcedenoapu6sj7kd7c8bcvm9ptfv9@4ax.com...
Greetings,

Will anyone please give me an HONEST answer to the question of whether
I should study ASP.NET or Coldfusion? Based on the fact that I'm a
total newbie to either. I just wanna start with databases.

But I'm already a web designer, and have used Macromedia products like
Fireworks, Flash, and Dreamweaver for years already. And I just want
to start getting myself into databases to increase my skills and also
explore this field. I am a fan of Macromedia, but this does not mean
that I will just blindly choose to go for Coldfusion. A friend of mine
has recommended ASP.NET, and not Coldfusion. But I want to hear other
opinions. But please, make your answer very honest, unbiased in a
romanticist way...just based on facts and honest, straightforward
comparison.

My question is not only concered with ease of use or speed only, for
instance. I actually want to include the demand for professionals in
both, the market share of both, what kind of companies require either
and why, is the integration with other Macromedia products like Flash,
Fireworks, and Dreamweaver (which I already know) worth the decision
of going for Coldfusion rather than ASP.NET even if Coldfusion falls
short in a few things, many other related questions too. I would
appreciate a smart and convincing and to-the-point answer.

Sincerely,

Yasso

P.S. If this is not the right newsgroup to post, please direct me to
the right one and sorry for the inconvenience.

[Kevin Spencer]

I have to agree with you Joe, concerning the ease of use. ASP.Net is very
powerful, and the CLR is very large and complex. I can't imagine how anyone
would think that ASP.Net is easier to use than CF, unless they haven't done
that much with it.

HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft FrontPage MVP
Internet Developer
[url]http://www.takempis.com[/url]
Big things are made up of
lots of Little things.

"Joe Iano" <jiano@_removethis_amphioncom.com> wrote in message
news:e%23X8%23T1ODHA.1336@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...

> In my opinion, for those without a programming background, CF is *much*
> easier to learn than ASP or ASP.Net.
> CF requires extra server software. IIS is easy to come by.
> .Net is a more powerful platform. You would have to combine CF with Java

to

> get something comparable.
> The long-time CF programmers I know are moving to other platforms due to
> performance limitations in CF.
>
> "Yasso Picasso" <okcrapme@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:4dnjfvcedenoapu6sj7kd7c8bcvm9ptfv9@4ax.com...
> Greetings,
>
> Will anyone please give me an HONEST answer to the question of whether
> I should study ASP.NET or Coldfusion? Based on the fact that I'm a
> total newbie to either. I just wanna start with databases.
>
> But I'm already a web designer, and have used Macromedia products like
> Fireworks, Flash, and Dreamweaver for years already. And I just want
> to start getting myself into databases to increase my skills and also
> explore this field. I am a fan of Macromedia, but this does not mean
> that I will just blindly choose to go for Coldfusion. A friend of mine
> has recommended ASP.NET, and not Coldfusion. But I want to hear other
> opinions. But please, make your answer very honest, unbiased in a
> romanticist way...just based on facts and honest, straightforward
> comparison.
>
> My question is not only concered with ease of use or speed only, for
> instance. I actually want to include the demand for professionals in
> both, the market share of both, what kind of companies require either
> and why, is the integration with other Macromedia products like Flash,
> Fireworks, and Dreamweaver (which I already know) worth the decision
> of going for Coldfusion rather than ASP.NET even if Coldfusion falls
> short in a few things, many other related questions too. I would
> appreciate a smart and convincing and to-the-point answer.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Yasso
>
> P.S. If this is not the right newsgroup to post, please direct me to
> the right one and sorry for the inconvenience.
>
>

[John Timney \(Microsoft MVP\)]

..NET is vastly more powerful than anyhting else on the market, but its not
the easiest to pick up for newbies.

Cold Fusion is not a greatly required skill but its relatively easy to
learn.............

A better option for a beginner would be PHP, which is a very good scripting
language and is very popular. It would teach you the basics of web
scripting, DB's etc and still allow you to learn about object programming
when you get better at it. Then you can migrate to asp.NET as the langauge
syntax in PHP is quite C/Perl like, so its relatively like C# syntax wise in
some respects

--
Regards

John Timney (Microsoft ASP.NET MVP)
----------------------------------------------
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ISBN:1-861007-91-4
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ISBN: 1861005547
Professional JSP 2nd Edition
ISBN: 1861004958
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ISBN: 1861003625
Beginning JSP Web Development
ISBN: 1861002092
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----------------------------------------------

"Yasso Picasso" <okcrapme@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4dnjfvcedenoapu6sj7kd7c8bcvm9ptfv9@4ax.com...

> Greetings,
>
> Will anyone please give me an HONEST answer to the question of whether
> I should study ASP.NET or Coldfusion? Based on the fact that I'm a
> total newbie to either. I just wanna start with databases.
>
> But I'm already a web designer, and have used Macromedia products like
> Fireworks, Flash, and Dreamweaver for years already. And I just want
> to start getting myself into databases to increase my skills and also
> explore this field. I am a fan of Macromedia, but this does not mean
> that I will just blindly choose to go for Coldfusion. A friend of mine
> has recommended ASP.NET, and not Coldfusion. But I want to hear other
> opinions. But please, make your answer very honest, unbiased in a
> romanticist way...just based on facts and honest, straightforward
> comparison.
>
> My question is not only concered with ease of use or speed only, for
> instance. I actually want to include the demand for professionals in
> both, the market share of both, what kind of companies require either
> and why, is the integration with other Macromedia products like Flash,
> Fireworks, and Dreamweaver (which I already know) worth the decision
> of going for Coldfusion rather than ASP.NET even if Coldfusion falls
> short in a few things, many other related questions too. I would
> appreciate a smart and convincing and to-the-point answer.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Yasso
>
> P.S. If this is not the right newsgroup to post, please direct me to
> the right one and sorry for the inconvenience.

[Yasso Picasso]

Hey everyone, thank you very much for all the advice and bits of useful
information. I think I'm getting the grasp on this, I mean the way I
should follow. I think I should study general programming along with
general database design (if you know of any material available to study
this, please tell me), along with SQL. Then take this knowledge to
ASP.NET, VB, and .NET Framework. Not an easy process at all, I'm sure,
but I guess it all starts with one step and determination.

Questions that still occupy my mind are: any resources to start studying
general ideas of database design plus any general programming skills
that will help me specifically in database design? And what is the
difference between SQL and MySQL, if there is any? Also does it make a
difference when I see courses for "SQL 2000"? Is that an old version or
something?

Thanks again.


*** Sent via Developersdex [url]http://www.developersdex.com[/url] ***
Don't just participate in USENET...get rewarded for it!

[Kevin Spencer]

Hi Yasso,

> So now, just to make sure, my understanding is that any terms like
> "MySQL" or "MS SQL 2000 Administration" or "SQL Server" bla bla, are
> always referring to "software servers" that work with databases saved on
> the "hardware servers" using the SQL language. Is this right?

I'm not sure I understand your question. Let me put it this way. A database
server is a piece of software that provides databases and all of their
functionality via a network Service. The Service listens on a port for
incoming requests, and handles them, in much the same way that a web server
is a network service which listens on TCP/IP port 80 for incoming requests,
and serves up resources stored in its' webs. Most database servers have
several different "interfaces" or methods of interfacing with them. Among
these interfaces are OLE DB, ODBC, and others. The interface allows a
connection to be established to the server, and commands can be sent through
this connection using the SQL language.

> And, as I do not intend to be an administrator of a sever, but a
> designer developer, then I do not need to study or take training in
> anything that holds any of those many terms, but only study "SQL" as a
> programming or scripting language. Right?

Well, sort of. You need to understand how the database server you're working
with is connected to as well, and what its' capabilities are, such as the
capability of creating an working with Stored Procedures, Views, Distributed
Queries, Transactions, etc. And, as I mentioned before, although there is an
ANSI/ISO standard for SQL, each database uses it's own "flavor" of SQL. So
you need to understand the proprietary aspects of the SQL language for the
specific database you're working with.

> This question is just out of curiousity, if the language is one
> language, SQL, then why is there more than one software server that uses
> it to talk to databases? MySQL and MS SQL Server? Why is that? Doesn't
> Coldfusion, for instance, have only one Coldfusion Server produced now
> by Macromedia?

As an answer, let me ask you a question: Why is there more than one software
that uses the ASCII character set? It's all a matter of cross-platform
compatibility, interoperability, and ease of use. The more a piece of
software uses common standards, the easier it is to work with, the better it
can interoperate with other systems, and the more likely it is that people
will use it. SQL is text-based, which makes it cross-platform-compatible. It
is standardized, which makes it easy to move from one database platform to
another without having to master a huge proprietary learning curve.

HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft FrontPage MVP
Internet Developer
[url]http://www.takempis.com[/url]
Big things are made up of
lots of Little things.

"Yasso Picasso" <yayasso@sci.fi> wrote in message
news:u0hX7jKPDHA.2316@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...

> Hi Kevin,
>
> Thank you so very much for the information you gave me, I'm really
> grateful. It kind of cleared something that confused me before. I'm sure
> many others around here know what you're talking about and may not find
> it very new or informative, but the point is that you've properly
> cleared the confusions in MY mind. Besides, someone may have talked
> about the same piece of information or answered my same question, yet in
> a way that wouldn't have cleared things in my mind this way. So again,
> I'm grateful.
>
> So now, just to make sure, my understanding is that any terms like
> "MySQL" or "MS SQL 2000 Administration" or "SQL Server" bla bla, are
> always referring to "software servers" that work with databases saved on
> the "hardware servers" using the SQL language. Is this right?
>
> And, as I do not intend to be an administrator of a sever, but a
> designer developer, then I do not need to study or take training in
> anything that holds any of those many terms, but only study "SQL" as a
> programming or scripting language. Right?
>
> This question is just out of curiousity, if the language is one
> language, SQL, then why is there more than one software server that uses
> it to talk to databases? MySQL and MS SQL Server? Why is that? Doesn't
> Coldfusion, for instance, have only one Coldfusion Server produced now
> by Macromedia?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Yasso
>
>
> *** Sent via Developersdex [url]http://www.developersdex.com[/url] ***
> Don't just participate in USENET...get rewarded for it!