Professional Web Applications Themes

Totally CSS? - Macromedia Dreamweaver

I'm using CSS more and more for my pages. Haven't used any XHTML yet. And I haven't used Stylemaster (used the Topstyle demo, and it's pretty nice). Check out [url]www.csszengarden.com[/url]. It's a page laid out entirely with CSS, and they invited graphic designers to see just what they could do with the CSS layout. Very nice. If I remember correctly, [url]www.espn.com[/url] now uses CSS for it's home page, too. -- Lance Goins [url]http://makeashorterlink.com/?X165518A2[/url] "shelton" <webforumsusermacromedia.com> wrote in message news:bemh1o$jil$1forums.macromedia.com... > Just wondering the opinion of folks on using CSS entirely to lay out sites? I get the impression that this ...

  1. #1

    Default Re: Totally CSS?

    I'm using CSS more and more for my pages. Haven't used any XHTML yet. And I
    haven't used Stylemaster (used the Topstyle demo, and it's pretty nice).

    Check out [url]www.csszengarden.com[/url]. It's a page laid out entirely with CSS, and
    they invited graphic designers to see just what they could do with the CSS
    layout. Very nice.

    If I remember correctly, [url]www.espn.com[/url] now uses CSS for it's home page, too.



    --
    Lance Goins
    [url]http://makeashorterlink.com/?X165518A2[/url]


    "shelton" <webforumsusermacromedia.com> wrote in message
    news:bemh1o$jil$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > Just wondering the opinion of folks on using CSS entirely to lay out
    sites? I get the impression that this is the direction I should be going
    to create valid code - to get away from tables.
    >
    > So far I have sort of picked up a little css on my own, by checking out
    other peoples work and continue to expand my use of it. But.... I don't
    know anything about xhtml and how to build sites entirely using xhtml and
    css. I've done a bit of reading on the subject, but don't find anything
    that sort of starts you from the beginning of the concept.
    >
    > What do you think about Stylemaster3? Is it worth trying out?
    >
    > Thanks for any advice and I hope this isn't something that's already been
    thoroughly discussed here and I should have searched first. If so, my
    apologies.
    >
    >

    Lance Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: Totally CSS?

    "shelton" [email]webforumsusermacromedia.com[/email] wrote:
    > Just wondering the opinion of folks on using CSS entirely
    > to lay out sites? I get the impression that this is the
    > direction I should be going to create valid code -
    > to get away from tables.
    Tables are valid. It's just not appropriate to use tables for layout.

    > So far I have sort of picked up a little css on my own, by
    > checking out other peoples work and continue to expand my
    > use of it. But.... I don't know anything about xhtml and
    > how to build sites entirely using xhtml and css.
    This is a big misunderstanding, you don't have to use XHTML for CSS
    layouts! Unless you want to take advantage of XHTML features, you can
    use HTML4.01. On the other hand, XHTML isn't much different from HTML,
    so if you're proficient in HTML there isn't much to learn. The main
    differences are outlined at the W3C site:
    <http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#diffs>.

    > I've done a bit of reading on the subject, but don't find
    > anything that sort of starts you from the beginning of the concept.
    The concept is quite simple: Don't think of HTML as a layout language,
    think of it as a markup language. The most important heading is marked
    up as H1, normal text is marked up as P, lists are marked up with list
    elements, etc. etc. - it's really MUCH simpler than HTML-"layout" :-).

    And then, when your doent is fully marked up, use CSS for the layout.

    There are many fine tutorials on CSS layouts. I suggest you take a look
    at the resources in the CSS-Discuss wiki: <http://css-discuss.incutio.com/>.


    Matthias

    Matthias Gutfeldt Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: Totally CSS?

    Well... I guess I'm a bit too cheap to pay for online articles, although I'm sure they are great and deserve a trade as any publication, but there's got to be free articles out there.

    I also see Layout Master in addition Style Master. Maybe that's a good tool to unveil the mystery of laying out sites with CSS. But... I'll still need to investigate the (x) in xhtml.


    shelton webforumsuser@macromedia.com Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: Totally CSS?

    > I get the impression that this is the direction I should be going to
    create valid code - to get away from tables.

    Remember that tables are perfectly valid code.

    That said, CSS has some advantages, though it has its disadvantages as well.

    It's good to learn, and do as much as you can with CSS. When reality
    dictates you use the odd table, then you at least know when to use them.
    Most sites I do these days use some very sp tables and the rest
    styled/layed out with CSS.

    -Darrel



    darrel Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: Totally CSS?

    I haven't paid for any online articles, or seen any mentioned in this
    thread.

    I have links to more CSS info on the 'link' page of my site (url in the
    sig).

    --
    Lance Goins
    [url]http://makeashorterlink.com/?X165518A2[/url]


    "shelton" <webforumsusermacromedia.com> wrote in message
    news:bemkbg$qrg$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > Well... I guess I'm a bit too cheap to pay for online articles, although
    I'm sure they are great and deserve a trade as any publication, but there's
    got to be free articles out there.
    >
    > I also see Layout Master in addition Style Master. Maybe that's a good
    tool to unveil the mystery of laying out sites with CSS. But... I'll still
    need to investigate the (x) in xhtml.
    >
    >

    Lance Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: Totally CSS?

    Superb article. Thanks for the link!

    Best regards,
    Chris


    Chris In Madison Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: Totally CSS?

    I am about where you are

    Its hard to let go of tables isn't it?

    I've been slowly making the transition. My sites contain more and more CSS
    and less tables. I tend to pick which projects are best to try new things
    on. Smaller static sites have been the ones where I've used almost all CSS
    and I am slowly applying what I've learned to larger more complex sites.

    This is what has worked for me.

    Lori


    "shelton" <webforumsusermacromedia.com> wrote in message
    news:bemh1o$jil$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > Just wondering the opinion of folks on using CSS entirely to lay out
    sites? I get the impression that this is the direction I should be going
    to create valid code - to get away from tables.
    >
    > So far I have sort of picked up a little css on my own, by checking out
    other peoples work and continue to expand my use of it. But.... I don't
    know anything about xhtml and how to build sites entirely using xhtml and
    css. I've done a bit of reading on the subject, but don't find anything
    that sort of starts you from the beginning of the concept.
    >
    > What do you think about Stylemaster3? Is it worth trying out?
    >
    > Thanks for any advice and I hope this isn't something that's already been
    thoroughly discussed here and I should have searched first. If so, my
    apologies.
    >
    >

    Lori Byrne Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: Totally CSS?

    >
    >
    > If I remember correctly, [url]www.espn.com[/url] now uses CSS for it's home page,
    > too.
    >
    >
    >
    Try zooming the text in the browser on that site and see what happens.
    You loose half the information.

    Im not sure you should be taking the tehcnical design of this site too
    seriously. Its been like that from launch and the designers still havent
    put it right. That signals to me that they are just full of bull.

    osgood Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: Totally CSS?

    Hm. I don't see a js error, nor do I get redirected, nor do I lose any content.
    Guess I'm just special, eh?? :) But you already knew that... hehehe

    Yeah, yeah...I know...syfkkh, DiMa :)

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    "Murray *TMM*" <forumsHAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
    news:bemsrj$e96$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > I get a javascript error on the page, but I see no text zooming effect.
    >
    > I do get redirected to msn.espn.go.com however....
    >
    > --
    > Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    > Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
    > (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
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    >
    > "DiMa" <dianaYOURHATANDCOATdimadesign.net> wrote in message
    > news:bemscg$dfu$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > > > zoom the text in the browser to 150%, see the effect. Personally I think
    > > > this article is not worth the paper its written on.
    > >
    > > I must be missing something, osgood...what effect are you talking about?
    > >
    > > --
    > > --
    > > DiMa
    > > --------------------
    > > WEB FORUM USERS: Please log on to the Newsgroup for quicker replies to
    > your
    > > posts:
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    > >
    >
    [url]http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search?q=+group:macromedia.dreamwea ver[/url]
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    > > [url]http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/etiquette.htm[/url]
    > > DiMa Design > From Lines...to Designs
    > > [url]http://www.dimadesign.net[/url]
    > >
    > >
    > > "osgood" <notavailablethisaddress.com> wrote in message
    > > news:bemqfm$80h$2forums.macromedia.com...
    > > > Lance wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > I read an article that interviewed the lead web designer for espn.com.
    > > > > Just found it again on google. Here's the link:
    > > > > [url]http://devedge.netscape.com/viewsource/2003/espn-interview/01/[/url]
    > > > >
    > > > > "Our traffic fluctuates with popular sports being in or out of season,
    > but
    > > > > throughout the year, we get anywhere from about 1 to 1.3 billion page
    > > > > views
    > > > > per month. This is for all ESPN-owned sites. For just our site on the
    > > > > ESPN.com domain, we average anywhere from about a half a billion to
    > 950
    > > > > million page views per month."
    > > > >
    > > > > I like this statement on worrying about all the users with old
    > browsers:
    > > > >
    > > > > "For better or for worse, we have every right to not consider the
    > > > > non-upgrader person in our design decisions. ESPN.com allows
    > customers,
    > > > > free-of-charge, to use our vast online sports resource in exchange for
    > one
    > > > > thing: exposure to advertising and sponsorships. This is how TV works,
    > and
    > > > > this is also basically how newspapers and magazines work as well. By
    > > > > embracing standards as we have done, and dropping support for those
    > who
    > > > > choose not to support standards, we are free to produce pages with
    > leaner
    > > > > code, better advertising opportunities, and an overall better user
    > > > > experience. To the extent that we can put our limited resources to
    > work
    > > > > producing a greater quantity of pages, which load faster, and look
    > > > > better to
    > > > > 98% of our viewers, we feel we have the right to make that choice."
    > > > > It's a good article, worth checking out.
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >

    DiMa Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: Totally CSS?

    800 x 600 gets a horizontal scroll on the site as well. I guess that's all part of their "bringing people along" position.


    shelton webforumsuser@macromedia.com Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: Totally CSS?

    Lance schrieb:
    >
    > I read an article that interviewed the lead web designer for espn.com.
    > Just found it again on google. Here's the link:
    > [url]http://devedge.netscape.com/viewsource/2003/espn-interview/01/[/url]
    The website simply doesn't live up to the expectations you get from
    reading the article. Standards compliance is more involved than
    replacing tables-based layout with CSS layout. The site is also rather
    inaccessible and requires both Flash and Javascript. You don't need a
    standards compliant browser to view the site, you need an ESPN compliant
    browser.

    For an IMHO better example you should look at <http://wired.com/>. Some
    pages on that site do have some validation issues, but they're minor
    compared to ESPN, and the site is far more accessible.


    Matthias
    Matthias Gutfeldt Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: Totally CSS?

    LOL :) Danielle got one yesterday at the grocery store and she dropped it on
    the floor after one bite. I gasped and crossed myself and the woman standing
    next to us laughed so hard she spit hers 3 feet in the air! :) Poor
    Daniellley!!

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    DiMa
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    "Murray *TMM*" <forumsHAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
    news:bemvu1$jo7$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > DiMa:
    >
    > GKK?
    >
    > (got KrispyKreme?)
    >
    > --
    > Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    > Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
    > (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
    > ==================
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    > ==================
    >
    > "DiMa" <dianaYOURHATANDCOATdimadesign.net> wrote in message
    > news:bemvo9$jcp$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > > Hm. I don't see a js error, nor do I get redirected, nor do I lose any
    > content.
    > > Guess I'm just special, eh?? :) But you already knew that... hehehe
    > >
    > > Yeah, yeah...I know...syfkkh, DiMa :)
    > >
    > > --
    > > --
    > > DiMa
    > > --------------------
    > > WEB FORUM USERS: Please log on to the Newsgroup for quicker replies to
    > your
    > > posts:
    > > [url]news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver[/url]
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    > >
    >
    [url]http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search?q=+group:macromedia.dreamwea ver[/url]
    > > [url]http://www.macromedia.com/support/dreamweaver/technotes.html[/url]
    > > [url]http://www.projectseven.com/faqbase[/url]
    > > [url]http://www.dreamweaverFAQ.com[/url]
    > >
    > > [url]http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/etiquette.htm[/url]
    > > DiMa Design > From Lines...to Designs
    > > [url]http://www.dimadesign.net[/url]
    > >
    > >
    > > "Murray *TMM*" <forumsHAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
    > > news:bemsrj$e96$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > > > I get a javascript error on the page, but I see no text zooming effect.
    > > >
    > > > I do get redirected to msn.espn.go.com however....
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    > > > Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
    > > > (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
    > > > ==================
    > > > [url]news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver[/url] - THE BEST WAY TO
    > GET
    > > > ANSWERS
    > > > ==================
    > > > [url]http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com[/url] - Template Triage!
    > > > [url]http://www.projectseven.com/go[/url] - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
    > > > [url]http://www.DreamweaverFAQ.com[/url] - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
    > > > [url]http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/[/url] - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
    > > > ==================
    > > >
    > > > "DiMa" <dianaYOURHATANDCOATdimadesign.net> wrote in message
    > > > news:bemscg$dfu$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > > > > > zoom the text in the browser to 150%, see the effect. Personally I
    > think
    > > > > > this article is not worth the paper its written on.
    > > > >
    > > > > I must be missing something, osgood...what effect are you talking
    > about?
    > > > >
    > > > > --
    > > > > --
    > > > > DiMa
    > > > > --------------------
    > > > > WEB FORUM USERS: Please log on to the Newsgroup for quicker replies to
    > > > your
    > > > > posts:
    > > > > [url]news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver[/url]
    > > > > For Answers, check here first:
    > > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >
    [url]http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search?q=+group:macromedia.dreamwea ver[/url]
    > > > > [url]http://www.macromedia.com/support/dreamweaver/technotes.html[/url]
    > > > > [url]http://www.projectseven.com/faqbase[/url]
    > > > > [url]http://www.dreamweaverFAQ.com[/url]
    > > > >
    > > > > [url]http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/etiquette.htm[/url]
    > > > > DiMa Design > From Lines...to Designs
    > > > > [url]http://www.dimadesign.net[/url]
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > "osgood" <notavailablethisaddress.com> wrote in message
    > > > > news:bemqfm$80h$2forums.macromedia.com...
    > > > > > Lance wrote:
    > > > > >
    > > > > > > I read an article that interviewed the lead web designer for
    > espn.com.
    > > > > > > Just found it again on google. Here's the link:
    > > > > > > [url]http://devedge.netscape.com/viewsource/2003/espn-interview/01/[/url]
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > "Our traffic fluctuates with popular sports being in or out of
    > season,
    > > > but
    > > > > > > throughout the year, we get anywhere from about 1 to 1.3 billion
    > page
    > > > > > > views
    > > > > > > per month. This is for all ESPN-owned sites. For just our site on
    > the
    > > > > > > ESPN.com domain, we average anywhere from about a half a billion
    > to
    > > > 950
    > > > > > > million page views per month."
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > I like this statement on worrying about all the users with old
    > > > browsers:
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > "For better or for worse, we have every right to not consider the
    > > > > > > non-upgrader person in our design decisions. ESPN.com allows
    > > > customers,
    > > > > > > free-of-charge, to use our vast online sports resource in exchange
    > for
    > > > one
    > > > > > > thing: exposure to advertising and sponsorships. This is how TV
    > works,
    > > > and
    > > > > > > this is also basically how newspapers and magazines work as well.
    > By
    > > > > > > embracing standards as we have done, and dropping support for
    > those
    > > > who
    > > > > > > choose not to support standards, we are free to produce pages with
    > > > leaner
    > > > > > > code, better advertising opportunities, and an overall better user
    > > > > > > experience. To the extent that we can put our limited resources to
    > > > work
    > > > > > > producing a greater quantity of pages, which load faster, and look
    > > > > > > better to
    > > > > > > 98% of our viewers, we feel we have the right to make that
    > choice."
    > > > > > > It's a good article, worth checking out.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >

    DiMa Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: Totally CSS?

    If fail the 5 second rule because we both just stood there and stared at it. I
    mean, what else does one do when one drops the Bread of Life to the supermarket
    floor??? I swear I heard scary music in the background as we stood there in
    obvious horror!

    At least Danielle has a "cool" mom (I was told as much) and I got her another.
    And THIS time she ate it while sitting at a table! ;)

    --
    --
    DiMa
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    DiMa Design > From Lines...to Designs
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    "Murray *TMM*" <forumsHAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
    news:ben2t0$om8$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > DiMa:
    >
    > Did it fail the 5 second rule? Or do you use a modified 5 second rule out
    > there?
    >
    > --
    > Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    > ==================
    >
    > "DiMa" <dianaYOURHATANDCOATdimadesign.net> wrote in message
    > news:ben27o$nkh$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > > LOL :) Danielle got one yesterday at the grocery store and she dropped it
    > on
    > > the floor after one bite. I gasped and crossed myself and the woman
    > standing
    > > next to us laughed so hard she spit hers 3 feet in the air! :) Poor
    > > Daniellley!!
    > >
    >
    >

    DiMa Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: Totally CSS?

    Espn has used px font sizes.

    IE doesn't scale px. So if you use IE and try to zoom text nothing happens.

    Moz (and all Gecko based browsers)and Opera scale px font sizes too. ESPN
    layout doesn't hold good in these browsers with text zoom.

    Regards

    Ranjan
    [url]www.dreamlettes.net[/url]


    "DiMa" <dianaYOURHATANDCOATdimadesign.net> wrote in message
    news:bemvo9$jcp$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > Hm. I don't see a js error, nor do I get redirected, nor do I lose any
    content.
    > Guess I'm just special, eh?? :) But you already knew that... hehehe
    >
    > Yeah, yeah...I know...syfkkh, DiMa :)
    >
    > --
    > --
    > DiMa
    > --------------------
    > WEB FORUM USERS: Please log on to the Newsgroup for quicker replies to
    your
    > posts:
    > [url]news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver[/url]
    > For Answers, check here first:
    >
    [url]http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search?q=+group:macromedia.dreamwea ver[/url]
    > [url]http://www.macromedia.com/support/dreamweaver/technotes.html[/url]
    > [url]http://www.projectseven.com/faqbase[/url]
    > [url]http://www.dreamweaverFAQ.com[/url]
    >
    > [url]http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/etiquette.htm[/url]
    > DiMa Design > From Lines...to Designs
    > [url]http://www.dimadesign.net[/url]
    >
    >
    > "Murray *TMM*" <forumsHAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
    > news:bemsrj$e96$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > > I get a javascript error on the page, but I see no text zooming effect.
    > >
    > > I do get redirected to msn.espn.go.com however....
    > >
    > > --
    > > Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    > > Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
    > > (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
    > > ==================
    > > [url]news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver[/url] - THE BEST WAY TO
    GET
    > > ANSWERS
    > > ==================
    > > [url]http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com[/url] - Template Triage!
    > > [url]http://www.projectseven.com/go[/url] - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
    > > [url]http://www.DreamweaverFAQ.com[/url] - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
    > > [url]http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/[/url] - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
    > > ==================
    > >
    > > "DiMa" <dianaYOURHATANDCOATdimadesign.net> wrote in message
    > > news:bemscg$dfu$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > > > > zoom the text in the browser to 150%, see the effect. Personally I
    think
    > > > > this article is not worth the paper its written on.
    > > >
    > > > I must be missing something, osgood...what effect are you talking
    about?
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > --
    > > > DiMa
    > > > --------------------
    > > > WEB FORUM USERS: Please log on to the Newsgroup for quicker replies to
    > > your
    > > > posts:
    > > > [url]news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver[/url]
    > > > For Answers, check here first:
    > > >
    > >
    >
    [url]http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search?q=+group:macromedia.dreamwea ver[/url]
    > > > [url]http://www.macromedia.com/support/dreamweaver/technotes.html[/url]
    > > > [url]http://www.projectseven.com/faqbase[/url]
    > > > [url]http://www.dreamweaverFAQ.com[/url]
    > > >
    > > > [url]http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/etiquette.htm[/url]
    > > > DiMa Design > From Lines...to Designs
    > > > [url]http://www.dimadesign.net[/url]
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > "osgood" <notavailablethisaddress.com> wrote in message
    > > > news:bemqfm$80h$2forums.macromedia.com...
    > > > > Lance wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > > I read an article that interviewed the lead web designer for
    espn.com.
    > > > > > Just found it again on google. Here's the link:
    > > > > > [url]http://devedge.netscape.com/viewsource/2003/espn-interview/01/[/url]
    > > > > >
    > > > > > "Our traffic fluctuates with popular sports being in or out of
    season,
    > > but
    > > > > > throughout the year, we get anywhere from about 1 to 1.3 billion
    page
    > > > > > views
    > > > > > per month. This is for all ESPN-owned sites. For just our site on
    the
    > > > > > ESPN.com domain, we average anywhere from about a half a billion
    to
    > > 950
    > > > > > million page views per month."
    > > > > >
    > > > > > I like this statement on worrying about all the users with old
    > > browsers:
    > > > > >
    > > > > > "For better or for worse, we have every right to not consider the
    > > > > > non-upgrader person in our design decisions. ESPN.com allows
    > > customers,
    > > > > > free-of-charge, to use our vast online sports resource in exchange
    for
    > > one
    > > > > > thing: exposure to advertising and sponsorships. This is how TV
    works,
    > > and
    > > > > > this is also basically how newspapers and magazines work as well.
    By
    > > > > > embracing standards as we have done, and dropping support for
    those
    > > who
    > > > > > choose not to support standards, we are free to produce pages with
    > > leaner
    > > > > > code, better advertising opportunities, and an overall better user
    > > > > > experience. To the extent that we can put our limited resources to
    > > work
    > > > > > producing a greater quantity of pages, which load faster, and look
    > > > > > better to
    > > > > > 98% of our viewers, we feel we have the right to make that
    choice."
    > > > > > It's a good article, worth checking out.
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >

    ranjan - dreamlettes Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: Totally CSS?

    Ranjan:

    Yes - thanks.

    --
    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
    (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
    ==================
    [url]news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver[/url] - THE BEST WAY TO GET
    ANSWERS
    ==================
    [url]http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com[/url] - Template Triage!
    [url]http://www.projectseven.com/go[/url] - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
    [url]http://www.DreamweaverFAQ.com[/url] - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
    [url]http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/[/url] - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
    ==================

    "ranjan - dreamlettes" <ranjanNOSPAMdreamlettes.net> wrote in message
    news:ben4hn$rc5$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > Espn has used px font sizes.
    >
    > IE doesn't scale px. So if you use IE and try to zoom text nothing
    happens.
    >
    > Moz (and all Gecko based browsers)and Opera scale px font sizes too. ESPN
    > layout doesn't hold good in these browsers with text zoom.
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Ranjan
    > [url]www.dreamlettes.net[/url]
    >
    >
    > "DiMa" <dianaYOURHATANDCOATdimadesign.net> wrote in message
    > news:bemvo9$jcp$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > > Hm. I don't see a js error, nor do I get redirected, nor do I lose any
    > content.
    > > Guess I'm just special, eh?? :) But you already knew that... hehehe
    > >
    > > Yeah, yeah...I know...syfkkh, DiMa :)
    > >
    > > --
    > > --
    > > DiMa
    > > --------------------
    > > WEB FORUM USERS: Please log on to the Newsgroup for quicker replies to
    > your
    > > posts:
    > > [url]news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver[/url]
    > > For Answers, check here first:
    > >
    >
    [url]http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search?q=+group:macromedia.dreamwea ver[/url]
    > > [url]http://www.macromedia.com/support/dreamweaver/technotes.html[/url]
    > > [url]http://www.projectseven.com/faqbase[/url]
    > > [url]http://www.dreamweaverFAQ.com[/url]
    > >
    > > [url]http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/etiquette.htm[/url]
    > > DiMa Design > From Lines...to Designs
    > > [url]http://www.dimadesign.net[/url]
    > >
    > >
    > > "Murray *TMM*" <forumsHAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
    > > news:bemsrj$e96$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > > > I get a javascript error on the page, but I see no text zooming
    effect.
    > > >
    > > > I do get redirected to msn.espn.go.com however....
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    > > > Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver MX
    > > > (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
    > > > ==================
    > > > [url]news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver[/url] - THE BEST WAY TO
    > GET
    > > > ANSWERS
    > > > ==================
    > > > [url]http://www.dreamweavermx-templates.com[/url] - Template Triage!
    > > > [url]http://www.projectseven.com/go[/url] - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
    > > > [url]http://www.DreamweaverFAQ.com[/url] - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
    > > > [url]http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/[/url] - Macromedia (MM) Technotes
    > > > ==================
    > > >
    > > > "DiMa" <dianaYOURHATANDCOATdimadesign.net> wrote in message
    > > > news:bemscg$dfu$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > > > > > zoom the text in the browser to 150%, see the effect. Personally I
    > think
    > > > > > this article is not worth the paper its written on.
    > > > >
    > > > > I must be missing something, osgood...what effect are you talking
    > about?
    > > > >
    > > > > --
    > > > > --
    > > > > DiMa
    > > > > --------------------
    > > > > WEB FORUM USERS: Please log on to the Newsgroup for quicker replies
    to
    > > > your
    > > > > posts:
    > > > > [url]news://forums.macromedia.com/macromedia.dreamweaver[/url]
    > > > > For Answers, check here first:
    > > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >
    [url]http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search?q=+group:macromedia.dreamwea ver[/url]
    > > > > [url]http://www.macromedia.com/support/dreamweaver/technotes.html[/url]
    > > > > [url]http://www.projectseven.com/faqbase[/url]
    > > > > [url]http://www.dreamweaverFAQ.com[/url]
    > > > >
    > > > > [url]http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/etiquette.htm[/url]
    > > > > DiMa Design > From Lines...to Designs
    > > > > [url]http://www.dimadesign.net[/url]
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > "osgood" <notavailablethisaddress.com> wrote in message
    > > > > news:bemqfm$80h$2forums.macromedia.com...
    > > > > > Lance wrote:
    > > > > >
    > > > > > > I read an article that interviewed the lead web designer for
    > espn.com.
    > > > > > > Just found it again on google. Here's the link:
    > > > > > > [url]http://devedge.netscape.com/viewsource/2003/espn-interview/01/[/url]
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > "Our traffic fluctuates with popular sports being in or out of
    > season,
    > > > but
    > > > > > > throughout the year, we get anywhere from about 1 to 1.3 billion
    > page
    > > > > > > views
    > > > > > > per month. This is for all ESPN-owned sites. For just our site
    on
    > the
    > > > > > > ESPN.com domain, we average anywhere from about a half a billion
    > to
    > > > 950
    > > > > > > million page views per month."
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > I like this statement on worrying about all the users with old
    > > > browsers:
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > "For better or for worse, we have every right to not consider
    the
    > > > > > > non-upgrader person in our design decisions. ESPN.com allows
    > > > customers,
    > > > > > > free-of-charge, to use our vast online sports resource in
    exchange
    > for
    > > > one
    > > > > > > thing: exposure to advertising and sponsorships. This is how TV
    > works,
    > > > and
    > > > > > > this is also basically how newspapers and magazines work as
    well.
    > By
    > > > > > > embracing standards as we have done, and dropping support for
    > those
    > > > who
    > > > > > > choose not to support standards, we are free to produce pages
    with
    > > > leaner
    > > > > > > code, better advertising opportunities, and an overall better
    user
    > > > > > > experience. To the extent that we can put our limited resources
    to
    > > > work
    > > > > > > producing a greater quantity of pages, which load faster, and
    look
    > > > > > > better to
    > > > > > > 98% of our viewers, we feel we have the right to make that
    > choice."
    > > > > > > It's a good article, worth checking out.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >

    Murray *TMM* Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: Totally CSS?

    DiMa:

    You mean you left it there and didn't just eat the non-floor contact part of
    it. Why, I have left nose-prints on the floor while doing that with other
    KK adventures....

    --
    Murray --- ICQ 71997575
    ==================

    "DiMa" <dianaYOURHATANDCOATdimadesign.net> wrote in message
    news:ben3io$ppu$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > If fail the 5 second rule because we both just stood there and stared at
    it. I
    > mean, what else does one do when one drops the Bread of Life to the
    supermarket
    > floor??? I swear I heard scary music in the background as we stood there
    in
    > obvious horror!
    >
    > At least Danielle has a "cool" mom (I was told as much) and I got her
    another.
    > And THIS time she ate it while sitting at a table! ;)


    Murray *TMM* Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: Totally CSS?

    "DiMa" <dianaYOURHATANDCOATdimadesign.net> wrote in news:ben3io$ppu$1
    forums.macromedia.com:
    > the Bread of Life
    ROFL!

    --
    Steve
    Hong Kong
    Steve Fleischer Guest

  18. #18

    Default Re: Totally CSS?


    "shelton" <webforumsusermacromedia.com> wrote in message
    news:bemkbg$qrg$1forums.macromedia.com...
    > Well... I guess I'm a bit too cheap to pay for online articles, although
    I'm sure they are great and deserve a trade as any publication, but there's
    got to be free articles out there.

    We'd be embarassed to charge $1.99 for a tutorial or article, LOL.

    We do have several recent ones involving CSS that are pertinent to the
    subject at hand. You might also consider Jeffrey Zeldman's latest book, as
    well as our E-Book (Dreamweaver MX: Building on Solid Foundations). You can
    download a free chapter on our site and that particular chapter happens to
    be one that focuses on the separation of structure from presentation.


    --
    Al Sparber - PVII
    [url]http://www.projectseven.com[/url]
    Dreamweaver Extensions - DesignPacks - Tutorials - Books
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    The PVII Newsgroup | [url]news://forums.projectseven.com/pviiwebdev[/url]
    The CSS Newsgroup | [url]news://forums.projectseven.com/css[/url]
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------




    Al Sparber- PVII Guest

  19. #19

    Default Re: Totally CSS?

    Osgood,

    I agree with you wholeheartedly about the ESPN site. I wasn't aware that
    anyone interviewed them and would be shocked if the interview were positive
    or congratulatory in nature.

    I still think you've got the subject of CSS not quite clear yet in that a
    site "designed totally <with> CSS" does not preclude tables (which is what I
    think you mean). With that said, it is certainly possible to produce a
    gorgeous site using very modern techniques, with or without tables. How you
    do it depends on what you want to achieve.

    This kind of thinking gets newbies polarized and perhaps eggs css authors on
    to force themselves to attempt really cool designs just to prove that CSS
    can be pretty. There is nothing to prove. I swear there isn't :-)

    --
    Al Sparber - PVII
    [url]http://www.projectseven.com[/url]
    Dreamweaver Extensions - DesignPacks - Tutorials - Books
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    The PVII Newsgroup | [url]news://forums.projectseven.com/pviiwebdev[/url]
    The CSS Newsgroup | [url]news://forums.projectseven.com/css[/url]
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    > Ive yet to see a good creatively designed site totally produced in css.
    > I keep asking for people to point me to one on this forum but without
    > any response. Yes, you can create a simple two column affair, which will
    > work beautifully but beyond that it becomes more difficult to implement.
    > As such, good sites totally constructed by css, that actually passes
    > basic tests, are sadly lacking.

    Al Sparber- PVII Guest

  20. #20

    Default Re: Totally CSS?

    >
    > Osgood - I had no idea you were talking about the ESPN site! I thought you
    > meant the site on which the article was presented. Sorry...didn't even
    > LOOK at
    > the espn site. Still haven't. And wont :

    Dima,

    I dont often get annoyed but there was so much publicity about the ESPN
    site when it went totally css. Great if it works, but it doesnt. It
    doesnt because the so called designers dont understand the very basics
    of how a web page works when using <divs>.

    Even a snotty nosed schoolboy, in year 1, knows you dont put absolutely
    positioned divs, filled with text directly beneath one another.

    Before they go shouting their mouths off about how good it is and before
    other people, who shall remain namless, give it time and interview
    space, they should damn well check it out more carefully.

    A website that fails to work when the browser zoom tool is engaged is to
    me as bad as those people who jump up and down because a page is
    non-standards compatible and wont pass the validation test, worse infact.

    If I was the client who commissioned that site to be re-vamped and they
    came back with garbage like that they would either have to get it right
    or forego any payment. The only reason they dont, wont or cant get it
    right is because they are lousy inhouse designers who quite frankily
    dont have to get it right. Anyone with that unprofessional attitude
    obviously cant be taken seriously. As such the site, the people who
    designed the site and anyone who credits the site as being a good
    example of a site totally created by using css in my view carries no
    credibility whatsoever.

    Ive yet to see a good creatively designed site totally produced in css.
    I keep asking for people to point me to one on this forum but without
    any response. Yes, you can create a simple two column affair, which will
    work beautifully but beyond that it becomes more difficult to implement.
    As such, good sites totally constructed by css, that actually passes
    basic tests, are sadly lacking.

    osgood Guest

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