Two way Text on a circular path

[David_Johnstone@adobeforums.com]

[Dee Holmes]

More info.

[David_Johnstone@adobeforums.com]

I'm a Freehand user trying (needing) to learn Illustrator.

I have figure out how to set text round a path (a complete circle in this case)
But I want to set the top of the circle to read left to Right on the baseline and the
second sentence to read left to right with the top of the characters fitting the curve.

I freehand you just enter a return (New line) and it happens automatically.

[Paul_Tracy@adobeforums.com]

Why not two circular paths with text going one way on one and the other one on the other?

Then you can use baseline shift to get the text where you want it.
There's no formula for this, you'll just have to bodge it until it looks right.

We have crossposted here.

If you use two circles then the text on the bottom will be too high and you will need to take it downwards.

[Dee Holmes]

Is this what you want to do?

<http://home.nycap.rr.com/paulanddee/circle%20text.jpg>

Do you know how to do the first circle of text?

[David_Johnstone@adobeforums.com]

Yea, I have done the first circle and Yup, I'm already down the "bodge it" course of action, but it seems clumsy. I'm glad you understand the problem though. It's simple, but difficult explain. There must be a tidy way of doing this.

[Dee Holmes]

You'll get it. What are you having the most problems with?

[Dee Holmes]

Sorry to anyone just joining in. The link wont work since I broke my web page shortly after my last post.

[Phosphor@adobeforums.com]

This one needs to be in the FAQs

Written for version 8. Make sure your browser is set to display looping GIF animations.

<http://mywebpages.comcast.net/phoz/TOAP/toap.html>

[Doug_Katz@adobeforums.com]

David, it's just clunkier than FreeHand (I'm an ex-user as well). You simply can't get type above and below on a single ellipse... need to copy and flip. (Why do you need to switch to AI?)

[Dee Holmes]

Great explaination, Phosphor.

[James_Talmage@adobeforums.com]

There must be a tidy way of doing this.




Must there? ;-)

Actually, you're going to find quite a few things in AI which
are...um...untidy...compared to taken-for-granted features in FH. (For example, try performing routine alignments/distributions on points).

Of course, in other matters, the inverse can be said. (For example, in FH, try to define a line in terms of length and angle. Or try to scale an object proprotionally by entering an explicit value in one of its dimension fields.)

So you take the good with the bad. Welcome to AI. ;-)

Regarding the circular text problem, As I recall, Phosphor's method worked fine in AI10, but seems to have problems in CS (I'm on Windows these days). Corrections welcome.

Rather than cloning the entire circular spine, I usually find it tidier to just split the circle: Draw the circle. DirectSelect its bottom point. Cut. Paste in Front. Now you have two semi-circular paths which do not overlap. A couple more steps, but I usually find it less cumbersome because of another "less tidy" element of AI: its comparitively tedious command for Select Next Object Below/Above.

JET

[David_Johnstone@adobeforums.com]

Doug, (Why do you need to switch to AI?)
Don't really need to but got AI as part of the CS. Always felt a bit sheepish, not being fully conversant with it. Figured it will intergrate well with the other CS applicatons which I use a lot.

[David_Johnstone@adobeforums.com]

Phosphor, Many thanks. Very helpful. Very impressive too!

[Phosphor@adobeforums.com]

Thanks, David...and you're welcome. I hope that little tutorial provided you with some insight.

And James...

I suppose I ought to install this Illustrator 11 Tryout (that's been sitting on my desktop for almost 2 months) to have a look at why my old Illustrator 8 tutorial doesn't work the same way.

Umm....when I can dedicate some time to it.

[Doug_Katz@adobeforums.com]

What doesn't work is option-dragging the type across the path to simultaneously place it on the interior and copy it (and the path it's on). In AICS, you must first copy the object, paste it in front, then drag the duplicated type across the duplicated path to place it on the interior.

[David_Johnstone@adobeforums.com]

And thanks to you to Doug for your suggestions. I think I'll stick with Phosphor's technique as I've go my head around it.

But wait! Another, new AI frustration for the Freehand schooled. In Freehand I could retract one or both control handles neatly and completely into an anchor point using two buttons in the object control panel. I see that if I click on an anchor point with the convert point tool in AI, I can retract both handles but not one at a time.
I have come to grips with the various AI anchor point tools and find them straight forward enough. But I do miss this FH function. Have I overlooked something perhaps?

[Doug_Katz@adobeforums.com]

You've overlooked nothing. To retract a single handle, you must drag it to its point. You'll know it's completely retracted when the cursor becomes hollow.

[James_E._Talmage@adobeforums.com]

"In Freehand I could retract one or both control handles neatly and completely into an anchor point using two buttons in the object control panel. I see that if I click on an anchor point with the convert point tool in AI, I can retract both handles but not one at a time."

To retract one handle, you have to actually drag it back into the point. Normally, this affects both handles (disturbing two segments when you only want to affect one), because the user tends to click the point with the Convert tool first. But if you Alt/OptClick a *handle* of a curvePoint with the Convert tool, it will convert the point to a corner and let you move the handle under the cursor independently of the other handle (thus, converting it to a corner without retracting the other handle). The trick to this is to realize that in order to click the *handle* first, the point has to be selected first. So... you're drawing with the pen. You want to go back and retract one handle of a curve point which exists earlier in the path, but you do not want to disturb the adjacent segment. You press Ctrl/Cmd to momentarily invoke the last-used pointer. If the wrong pointer (the black one) appears, you tap Tab to toggle it to the DirectPointer. Now that you have the correct pointer, you click the point to select it and display its handles. Release Ctrl/Command and press Alt/Opt to momentarily invoke the ConvertTool. Drag one or the other handle back into the point while still pressing Alt/Opt. When you release Alt/Opt, the Pen is restored and the next click will resume drawing from where you left off.

Now, *extending* single handles from a pre-existing point is another matter. I have not found a way to do that in AI without extending both handles and thereby disturbing both segments.

Even though I've been using AI primarily for a couple years now, I still find its path/point drawing/manipulation to be generally more tedious and inefficient compared to FH's (not to say that FH's couldn't be improved, too.) It seems to me there are two basic underlying principles which result in the difference:

One is the general selection metaphor. In FH, you select "deeper" into an object by consecutive clicks with a single tool. (First click selects the path, second click selects the point). AI's "mindset" is that different levels of selection require different tools. So whether by keyboard shortcut or otherwise, you end up spending much more time switching tools in AI.

The other is the way AI's interface encourages the user to think of segments as existing independently of their defining points. This leads to too many inconsistencies in the interface. It shows up in several places, but one of the most obvious is the fact that ClickDragging a curved segment with the DirectPointer will bend the segment (move handles, but not points). But doing the very same thing on a straight segment will move the entire segment (moving both points; the segment shape stays the same). The problem is exacerbated by the fact that, other than displaying the handles of selected segments (if they are extended), the interface does not really show a segment as selected when it is.

"Have I overlooked something perhaps?"

You've overlooked that you also cannot change the type (curve or corner; there is no Connector point) of multiple points at at once as you can in FH. Nor can you close/open multiple paths at once. Nor auto-extend handles as you convert points. Nor can you close a path which begins with a curve point while respecting the original incoming handle of the first point. Nor can you clickDrag the middle of a straight segment in order to bend it without creating a new point.

JET