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Unbiased opinions needed - Mac Portable

derek / nul wrote: > On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 01:55:46 GMT, Steven Fisher <sdfisherspamcop.net> wrote: > > >>In article <aickfvstg1lrq4dkh7on6cu4v14jql45864ax.com>, >>derek / nul <abusesgrail.org> wrote: >> >> >>>Are you aware that MAC osX IS linux >> >>Har. I really want to know where you read that, and why you believe >>everything you read. > > > as pointed out by another its a port of freebsd A port of What? FreeBSD is a source derivative of BSD(Berkeley Softwre Distribution) Darwin is a source derivitive of BSD(Berkeley Software Distribution) [url]http://www.gnu-darwin.org[/url] [url]http://developer.apple.com/darwin/[/url] Quote from Apple" Beneath the appealing, easy-to-use interface of ...

  1. #41

    Default Re: Unbiased opinions needed

    derek / nul wrote:
    > On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 01:55:46 GMT, Steven Fisher <sdfisherspamcop.net> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>In article <aickfvstg1lrq4dkh7on6cu4v14jql45864ax.com>,
    >>derek / nul <abusesgrail.org> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Are you aware that MAC osX IS linux
    >>
    >>Har. I really want to know where you read that, and why you believe
    >>everything you read.
    >
    >
    > as pointed out by another its a port of freebsd
    A port of What?
    FreeBSD is a source derivative of BSD(Berkeley Softwre Distribution)
    Darwin is a source derivitive of BSD(Berkeley Software Distribution)


    [url]http://www.gnu-darwin.org[/url]

    [url]http://developer.apple.com/darwin/[/url]

    Quote from Apple"
    Beneath the appealing, easy-to-use interface of Mac OS X is a
    rock-solid foundation that is engineered for stability, reliability, and
    performance. This foundation is a core operating system commonly known
    as Darwin. Darwin integrates a number of technologies, most importantly
    Mach 3.0, operating-system services based on 4.4BSD (Berkeley Software
    Distribution), high-performance networking facilities, and support for
    multiple integrated file systems." end Quote


    [url]http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/explaining-bsd/index.html[/url]

    Description from FreeBSD Quote"
    What is a Real Unix?

    BSD operating systems are not clones, but open source derivatives of
    AT&T's Research UNIX operating system, which is also the ancestor of the
    modern UNIX System V. This may surprise you. How could that happen when
    AT&T has never released its code as open source?

    It is true that AT&T UNIX is not open source, and in a copyright sense
    BSD is very definitely not UNIX, but on the other hand, AT&T has
    imported sources from other projects, noticeably the Computer Sciences
    Research Group of the University of California in Berkeley, CA. Starting
    in 1976, the CSRG started releasing tapes of their software, calling
    them Berkeley Software Distribution or BSD.

    "End Quote

    CyBorg 0091 Guest

  2. #42

    Default Re: Unbiased opinions needed

    <ryakohotmail.com> wrote:
    >I don't want to start a Mac vs PC war here or anything but I need to
    >know the good and bad points about Mac and PC (Intel etc). I have done
    >some searching and the general consensus is that Mac users say Macs are
    >better and PCs are bad and vice versa for PC users about Macs etc. (you
    >get my drift).
    If you like the way Microsoft thinks you should work then you'll
    probably be happier with Windows. It has the advantage of having
    broader support. If you need cheap go Windows. If you want a
    computer that is better behaved and easier to use, then go Mac.
    If you need the best performance go Mac.
    >So I am finding it hard to decide between the two. Basically I will be
    >using it for Word Processing, basic statistics (Excel stuff), Internet
    >and Photoshop (not much PS though, mainly the other 2). I don't know a
    >HUGE amount about computers and wouldn't know how to change
    >configuration settings if my life depended on it. Basically I want to
    >turn it on, do what I have to do then turn it off without fiddling around.
    Try using each. Pick the one that annoys you the least.

    --
    Ray Fischer
    [email]rfischersonic.net[/email]

    Ray Fischer Guest

  3. #43

    Default Re: Unbiased opinions needed

    "Victor Eijkhout" <see.signaturefor.address> wrote in message
    news:1fx4d22.di1ccjk7ka39N%
    > (Say, what's the situation in the Netherlands these days? If I tote a
    > laptop with me through Amsterdam, where can I access the internet? How
    > are smaller towns?)
    I haven't got a clue...
    but of course, that's because I don't have wireless internet just yet...
    perhaps I will in a couple of days... :-)


    Sting


    Sting Guest

  4. #44

    Default Re: Unbiased opinions needed

    I think the rest of us are getting sick and tired of all these
    UNBIASED opinions. End this discussion and now let the man make up his
    own mind. Just as an after thought if you follow the trail of all the
    messages in this discussion - the MAC users are the ones making the
    most noise - I'll leave you all to draw your own conclusions.

    cheers
    Gazza

    "Sting" <mailask.me.first> wrote in message
    news:3efa9f26$0$8305$4d4ebb8eread.news.nl.uu.net. ..
    "Victor Eijkhout" <see.signaturefor.address> wrote in message
    news:1fx4d22.di1ccjk7ka39N%
    > (Say, what's the situation in the Netherlands these days? If I tote
    a
    > laptop with me through Amsterdam, where can I access the internet?
    How
    > are smaller towns?)
    I haven't got a clue...
    but of course, that's because I don't have wireless internet just
    yet...
    perhaps I will in a couple of days... :-)


    Sting




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    Gazza Ozzie Guest

  5. #45

    Default Re: Unbiased opinions needed

    In article <ZYyKa.595$Py2.5825news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
    "Gazza Ozzie" <gazzaozziehotmail.com.REMOVEIFNOTSPAM> wrote:
    > End this discussion and now let the man make up his
    > own mind.
    Yo, Gazza, how many men do you know named Angela? :)

    J.
    julie simpson Guest

  6. #46

    Default Re: Unbiased opinions needed

    thought it was Angelus

    (Couldn't find original message to see who posted it so took pot
    luck - no luck?)

    "julie simpson" <jsauroramedia.net> wrote in message
    news:js-E2C681.19473426062003news.newsguy.com...
    In article <ZYyKa.595$Py2.5825news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
    "Gazza Ozzie" <gazzaozziehotmail.com.REMOVEIFNOTSPAM> wrote:
    > End this discussion and now let the man make up his
    > own mind.
    Yo, Gazza, how many men do you know named Angela? :)

    J.


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    Gary Guest

  7. #47

    Default Re: Unbiased opinions needed

    In article <3ef96165$0$26633$afc38c87news.optusnet.com.au> , Miro
    <miro01hotmail.com> wrote:
    > <ryakohotmail.com> wrote in message news:3EF938FF.1010506hotmail.com...
    > > I don't want to start a Mac vs PC war here or anything but I need to
    > > know the good and bad points about Mac and PC (Intel etc). I have done
    > > some searching and the general consensus is that Mac users say Macs are
    > > better and PCs are bad and vice versa for PC users about Macs etc. (you
    > > get my drift).
    > >
    >
    > I have both and all I can say is that a name brand PC running Office is much
    > better integrated than Mac OS X will ever be.
    could be true....
    >
    > The fact that Microsoft has PC's covered from end to end says a lot about
    > the ease of use.
    No it says alot about the power of marketing an inferioir product
    >
    > MacOS X is a pig to setup with some type of ADSL and other tid-bits. And you
    > can forget about easy tricks doing some future advanced stuff.
    >
    where the hell did this come from?
    > PC's can be upgraded cheaply, taught easily and cheaply and there are many
    > people on here that can help.
    Mac's can be upgraded cheaply, taught very easily and cheaply and there
    are many people on here that can help.

    >
    > You will grow out of the "im a novice" really quick and before long you will
    > wonder why you would need a Mac since it can only be serviced by ONE
    > corporation compared to the hundreds of people who can service a PC.
    >
    What theF**k are you talking about?
    Anyone can upgrade your mac, even you
    There dozens of reliable mac repair places in sydney
    Are there a dozen reliable PC repair places in sydney?
    (Not too many i would trust)
    > Dont assume you will always be ignorant. That lasts about 2 weeks.
    >
    >
    Damian
    Damian Guest

  8. #48

    Default Re: Unbiased opinions needed


    "Samuel Tang" <samueltangaustarmetro.com.au> wrote in message
    news:3EF9ECD6.D6006BD5austarmetro.com.au...
    > Hi Sandgroper,
    >
    > I tend to stay away from "platform debates" (to put it mildly), but I
    am
    > interested in your statements:
    >
    > Sandgroper wrote:
    >
    > (snipped)
    >
    > > The short answer is
    > >
    > > 1) LESS than 10% of desktop computers in the world are Macs , so the
    > > other 80% of computers are PCs which means that the PCs are more
    popular
    > > and common , have a standardised type of interface , more available
    > > software applications , and you don't have the problem of converting
    Mac
    > > files/formats to PC files/formats when sharing files with other
    people.
    >
    > The statistics of Macs being less than 10% and PC's being 80% of all
    the
    > computers in the world: is it based on 1. the total number of
    computers
    > still in active use, or 2, computer sales over a certain period?
    >
    > If it is the former case, it would be hard to count all of them, and
    > besides, does firing up a 15-year-old computer every other month for a
    > nostalgic game of Pong or whatever count as a computer still in use?
    >
    > If it is the latter case, then we have to consider the lifespan of the
    > computer itself. It is a fact that Macs remain productive for much
    longer
    > than PCs, where the average lifespan is six years rather than four,
    there
    > are still plenty of 68k machines doing the 9-5; I am not sure if PC
    users
    > would want to soldier on with their 286 machines. Therefore, the
    number if
    > Macs still in use would be several times more than the 10% as stated.
    >
    I sort of like tend to stay away from platform debates , but I think
    people's preferences are usually based on their experience when they
    first start learning on a computer.

    What I have been really trying to point out is that PCs are more common
    than Macs and that the more common the product , the easier it is for
    everything , from repairs/upgrades to porting files/applications to
    another system.

    If you , say want to send a file to a friend when you have a Mac ,
    chances are that they will have problems opening it because most people
    ( 80% ) are using PCs than Macs.
    Basically , the more common the product , the more cheaper it is to own
    and operate as well as being part of a set of standardised criteria.
    > Regarding format conversion, the original poster did not say that she
    was
    > going to be generating files to be opened on Windows machines. With a
    copy
    > of MacLink Plus Deluxe, she could very well be Microsoft-free and no
    one
    > would know the difference; and then she could also just use SimpleText
    > generate text, even some simple word processing, and the resultant
    file can
    > be opened by anything. Mariner can also be used and it can open just
    about
    > any word processing file, and then save a file in any of two-dozen
    formats.
    > No, format conversion is not an issue for the Macintosh user, it is
    more of
    > a problem with the PC user and his complacency.
    As with needing to convert file formats from Mac to PC ... etc and then
    people say , Oh , but you can do it by using x program , I find that
    totally and absolutely stupid , WHY buy a Mac so you can run conversion
    programs to convert Mac to PC when all you need to do is get a PC in
    the first place !
    > > 2) Upgrading , getting /replacing new hardware for Macs is more
    > > expensive than for PCs because the Mac hardware is proprietary
    > > hardware and Apple can charge what they want.
    > > Hardware improvements for the Macs are a lot slower than the PCs
    because
    > > the Macs are made by only one company and they use proprietary
    hardware
    > > , while the PC hardware is obtained from many different
    organisations
    > > and developers who are consistently attempting to develop and
    improve
    > > their products.
    >
    > While I am sure that on the PC front the speed of hardware
    improvements
    > occur at a breakneck pace, this also shortens the life cycle of each
    > generation of products. While there are countless hardware developers
    > competing against each other, the final components they manufacture
    still
    > have to work with each other in the same box, and with Windows running
    the
    > show. While it is debatable whether upgrading Macs is more expensive
    than
    > PCs, it is not realistic to say that the Macintosh platform, being a
    > single-sourced product, is less effective than that of a product from
    many
    > sources because Windows is indeed a single-sourced product as well.
    For my
    > money I would rather have the lot from the same manufacturer who would
    > ensure everything works together, without the need for assemblers or
    myself
    > to orchestrate all the parts just to make them get on with each other.
    I don't agree , the point I am trying to make is that you are dependant
    on only ONE company to develop , produce and market their produce using
    proprietary hardware , which means that the cost of the hardware will be
    more expensive , sometimes in short supply and not be made to any
    standards like the IEEE.

    There is essentially nothing wrong with the Mac hardware , but what
    happens if Apple go out of business , you are stuffed.

    As than example , you only have to look at Intel and the RDRAM story ,
    in which Intel tried to lock in all their P4s with the propietry RDRAM
    hardware and made the RDRAM twice as expensive as the DDRAM because
    RDRAM was made under license from only one company.
    Everybody refused to accept the propietary RDRAM and started using AMD
    until Intel changed their way.

    Not only that , but the Mac can only run one type of OS , a PC can run
    Windows.xx , DOS , DRDOS , OS/2 , Linux , Lindows and perhaps a few
    others as well.
    > Following your argument, the resolution I can draw just happens to be
    quite
    > the opposite.
    With the two basic arguments I have made I wouldn't buy ANY produce if
    it was :

    1) Used by only 10% of people
    2) Proprietary hardware , dependant on only one company.



    --

    Sandgroper
    -----------------------------------
    Remove KNICKERS to Email
    [email]steverayKNICKERSiinet.net.au[/email]






    Sandgroper Guest

  9. #49

    Default Re: Unbiased opinions needed


    "Vincent Vega" <vvega493verizon.net> wrote in message
    news:vvega493-4E46E2.11500325062003news.bellatlantic.net...
    > In article <3ef9e0ea$0$11170echo-01.iinet.net.au>,
    > "Sandgroper" <steverayKNICKERSiinet.net.au> wrote:
    >
    > > The short answer is
    > >
    > > 1) LESS than 10% of desktop computers in the world are Macs , so the
    > > other 80% of computers are PCs which means that the PCs are more
    popular
    > > and common ,
    >
    > Just like McDonalds.
    >
    > > have a standardised type of interface ,
    >
    > You're kidding, right? The Mac will always win this one based on the
    > fact that only one company sets the rules. You silly person.
    >
    Yeah , manufactured by only one company means that they can charge what
    they want for their product instead of the general market prices.
    They will also have their own set of standards that is out of whack with
    the rest of the world.
    > > more available
    > > software applications ,
    >
    > Just how many word processers does one need, exactly?
    It's all about the CHOICE of what applications/games you can run on your
    system , not how many you can run at one time.
    From where I live , every computer shop and software store sells 90% PC
    based software and only 10% Mac software.

    --

    Sandgroper
    -----------------------------------
    Remove KNICKERS to Email
    [email]steverayKNICKERSiinet.net.au[/email]




    Sandgroper Guest

  10. #50

    Default Re: Unbiased opinions needed

    Sandgroper said:
    >
    > "Vincent Vega" <vvega493verizon.net> wrote in message
    > news:vvega493-4E46E2.11500325062003news.bellatlantic.net...
    >> In article <3ef9e0ea$0$11170echo-01.iinet.net.au>,
    >> "Sandgroper" <steverayKNICKERSiinet.net.au> wrote:
    >>
    >>> The short answer is
    >>>
    >>> 1) LESS than 10% of desktop computers in the world are Macs , so the
    >>> other 80% of computers are PCs which means that the PCs are more
    > popular
    >>> and common ,
    >>
    >> Just like McDonalds.
    >>
    >>> have a standardised type of interface ,
    >>
    >> You're kidding, right? The Mac will always win this one based on the
    >> fact that only one company sets the rules. You silly person.
    >>
    > Yeah , manufactured by only one company means that they can charge what
    > they want for their product instead of the general market prices.
    > They will also have their own set of standards that is out of whack with
    > the rest of the world.
    BMWs cost a lot more than Commodores but their prices aren't out of whack
    with the rest of the world. They're worth the extra money - just as Apple's
    computers are.

    Steve = : ^ )
    --
    Not my real email address of course but true all the same. Reply to
    steveb.bigpondnetau swapping the "." and the ""s.

    Steve Ball Guest

  11. #51

    Default Re: Unbiased opinions needed

    Sandgroper wrote:
    > It's all about the CHOICE of what applications/games you can run on your
    > system , not how many you can run at one time.
    > From where I live , every computer shop and software store sells 90% PC
    > based software and only 10% Mac software.
    I shop for software on the internet. What does that do to statistics?

    Dale
    Dale Stanbrough Guest

  12. #52

    Default Re: Unbiased opinions needed

    Sandgroper wrote:
    > There is essentially nothing wrong with the Mac hardware , but what
    > happens if Apple go out of business , you are stuffed.
    Hardly. If Apple die, their computers don't just disappear - you can
    still use them. You can then plan on moving your data across when
    and if you need to. In the mean time, many people get to play with
    computers that they enjoy.

    "Oh dear, BMW might go out of business. Better buy a crappy car
    instead, -just in case- ".

    dale
    Dale Stanbrough Guest

  13. #53

    Default Re: Unbiased opinions needed

    Sandgroper wrote:
    > Not only that , but the Mac can only run one type of OS , a PC can run
    > Windows.xx , DOS , DRDOS , OS/2 , Linux , Lindows and perhaps a few
    > others as well.
    Not true - you can run Linux on a Mac (currently you have to if you
    want to do certain things like serious wireless hacking).
    > With the two basic arguments I have made I wouldn't buy ANY produce if
    > it was :
    >
    > 1) Used by only 10% of people
    > 2) Proprietary hardware , dependant on only one company.
    The first point is rather silly - I am not a sheep and do not
    make decisions just based on "well everyone else is doing it".

    Proprietry hardware certainly has a downside, but then so does
    proprietry software, which would rule out any Microsoft OS as
    well as OS X (but not Darwin).

    I bought my first computer about a month ago (always used work
    machines before). If I had been getting a desktop machine I
    probably would have gone for x86 hardware and installed Debian.
    For a laptop things tend not to be quite so simple and I wanted
    something that worked out of the box. I spent about six months
    considering options and eventually went for an iBook. No regrets
    so far.
    Ian Gregory Guest

  14. Moderated Post

    Default Re: Unbiased opinions needed

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    Samuel Tang Guest
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  15. #55

    Default Re: Unbiased opinions needed

    Watt <wattknott.house> wrote:
    >Where did you hear that? AFAIK the G5 does not boot OS 9. On the other
    >hand, all the G4 towers being sold until the G5s ship do boot OS 9.
    >Perhaps that's what you're thinking of?
    I may have misunderstood something I read somewhere when those G5s
    were announced. If so, my bad...


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    H.B. Elkins Guest

  16. #56

    Default Re: Unbiased opinions needed

    In <p4lkfv88qosuj7o2fnedpqrc9150vk1mgc4ax.com> derek / nul wrote:
    >>> Are you aware that MAC osX IS linux
    >>
    >>Har. I really want to know where you read that, and why you believe
    >>everything you read.
    >
    > as pointed out by another its a port of freebsd
    Of Mach, actually, with BSD compatibility.

    --
    Serwis Usenet w portalu Gazeta.pl -> [url]http://www.gazeta.pl/usenet/[/url]
    Wojciech Orlinski Guest

  17. #57

    Default Re: Unbiased opinions needed

    In article <3efadf24$0$20728echo-01.iinet.net.au>,
    "Sandgroper" <steverayKNICKERSiinet.net.au> wrote:
    > With the two basic arguments I have made I wouldn't buy ANY produce if
    > it was :
    >
    > 1) Used by only 10% of people
    > 2) Proprietary hardware , dependant on only one company.
    So I guess a Porsche is out of the question, then? ;)

    J.
    julie simpson Guest

  18. #58

    Default Re: Unbiased opinions needed

    Are you also aware that Apple nearly went out of business a few years
    ago - reason they survived - Bill Gates gave them the needed cash
    injection. Check it out. Microsoft write WINDOWS products for the MAC.

    PC is an open system hardware device that came about through IBM
    because people objected to being forced into a propriety hardware
    platform.

    The only reason Apple computers now support industry and world
    standards is because market pressure from PC world forced them to.
    Apple even had it own propriety network - Apple Talk and if you didn't
    mind a network that ran like and performed like a dog it was great.

    I have supported both machines in a business environment - Apple
    machines were more reliable as stand alone devices but were very
    labour intensive as network devices and in using anything but an Apple
    compatible peripheral. Apple mandated that everything for there
    machines comply to their own propriety standards and charged companies
    large amounts for licences to produce Apple compatible devices.

    So believe it or not we have Apple to thank for the IBM compatible PC
    which was built to open standards and parts could be manufactured by
    everyone thereby making them cheaper and as a result bought by
    millions. Today's PCs can do anything an Apple can do and in majority
    of cases better - mind you Apple does catch up as they see the
    improvements made in PC world and adapt their machine to them - of
    course you have to buy a complete new package to get them.

    A PC can run numerous OS because it is an open hardware machine. Don't
    get Windows operating system confused with PC hardware. Although I can
    understand how Apple users have a problem distinguishing between
    hardware and OS as they have no choice as they have to used supplied
    OS on their machine. Most Apple users say this is a plus for their
    system - depends an how free you want to be to decide on how you use
    your machine. I can unplug the hard drive ( mounted in a cradle on
    front of PC) and plug in new one and have changed my OS - Windows XP,
    Windows 98, Linux, BeOS, BSD - try that with your MAC with out an
    emulator. It just goes to show the development that has gone into
    those OS as the majority (Windows and Linux in particular) can
    recognise and load drivers for all the internal hardware and connected
    peripherals.

    I could continue but no matter how much is said it is impossible to
    overcome fanaticism.

    cheers
    Gazza

    Julie - I tried to end this but??

    No one has explained to me why I would need a BMW to get me from point
    A to B at great expense when I can get there just as easy in a Corolla
    at have the cost. Must be a STATUS thing.

    "julie simpson" <jsauroramedia.net> wrote in message
    news:js-8C3D86.09033127062003news.newsguy.com...
    In article <3efadf24$0$20728echo-01.iinet.net.au>,
    "Sandgroper" <steverayKNICKERSiinet.net.au> wrote:
    > With the two basic arguments I have made I wouldn't buy ANY produce
    if
    > it was :
    >
    > 1) Used by only 10% of people
    > 2) Proprietary hardware , dependant on only one company.
    So I guess a Porsche is out of the question, then? ;)

    J.


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    Gazza Ozzie Guest

  19. #59

    Default Re: Unbiased opinions needed

    julie simpson said:
    > In article <3efadf24$0$20728echo-01.iinet.net.au>,
    > "Sandgroper" <steverayKNICKERSiinet.net.au> wrote:
    >
    >> With the two basic arguments I have made I wouldn't buy ANY produce if
    >> it was :
    >>
    >> 1) Used by only 10% of people
    >> 2) Proprietary hardware , dependant on only one company.
    >
    > So I guess a Porsche is out of the question, then? ;)
    Brilliant!

    'Thinking Different" leads down the road to Macs and Porsches etc...
    Thinking like the other 90% leads to PCs and Commodores etc...

    Steve = : ^ )
    --
    Not my real email address of course but true all the same. Reply to
    steveb.bigpondnetau swapping the "." and the ""s.

    Steve Ball Guest

  20. #60

    Default Re: Unbiased opinions needed

    Gazza Ozzie said:
    > I could continue but no matter how much is said it is impossible to
    > overcome fanaticism.
    >
    > cheers
    > Gazza
    >
    > Julie - I tried to end this but??
    >
    > No one has explained to me why I would need a BMW to get me from point
    > A to B at great expense when I can get there just as easy in a Corolla
    > at have the cost. Must be a STATUS thing.
    Therein lies the difference. You're a Corolla kind of guy. A car is a thing
    to get from A to B right? Nothing more. A computer is a thing to crunch
    numbers, right? A PC does that just fine.

    Some of us live in a different world. A Ferrari isn't for getting from A to
    B. It's about the journey. So is working on a Mac.

    HTH,
    Steve = : ^ )

    --
    Not my real email address of course but true all the same. Reply to
    steveb.bigpondnetau swapping the "." and the ""s.

    Steve Ball Guest

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