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What constitute a DB2 client? Can some IBMers help ans. this licensing question?? - IBM DB2

We have an application running several daemon processes on a UNIX server. The "user" applications communicate directly with the server application via proprietory messages. Based on these messages the server processes query and update the databases which resides on the same UNIX server. The results if needed get passed back to the "users" via the same messaging system. No DB2 client software is installed in the "user" machines. Do we need to pay for licenses on these "user" computers/equipments? Thanks, Bill. [email]leungbaptea.com[/email]...

  1. #1

    Default What constitute a DB2 client? Can some IBMers help ans. this licensing question??

    We have an application running several daemon processes on a UNIX
    server. The "user" applications communicate directly with the server
    application via proprietory messages. Based on these messages the
    server processes query and update the databases which resides on the
    same UNIX server. The results if needed get passed back to the "users"
    via the same messaging system. No DB2 client software is installed in
    the "user" machines. Do we need to pay for licenses on these "user"
    computers/equipments?

    Thanks,

    Bill.
    [email]leungbaptea.com[/email]
    sql-db2-dba Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: What constitute a DB2 client? Can some IBMers help ans. thislicensing question??

    Bill,

    If you license DB2 V8 Enterprise Server Edition and you only access DB2
    data that resides on a UNIX server (and do not access any mainframe or
    AS/400 data), you must license DB2 V8 ESE for the total # of processors on
    the UNIX servers that DB2 resides on. This does not include host access,
    Information Integrator, or any other adjunct products like Warehouse
    manager, Cube Views, OLAP Server, etc.

    Larry Edelstein

    sql-db2-dba wrote:
    > We have an application running several daemon processes on a UNIX
    > server. The "user" applications communicate directly with the server
    > application via proprietory messages. Based on these messages the
    > server processes query and update the databases which resides on the
    > same UNIX server. The results if needed get passed back to the "users"
    > via the same messaging system. No DB2 client software is installed in
    > the "user" machines. Do we need to pay for licenses on these "user"
    > computers/equipments?
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Bill.
    > [email]leungbaptea.com[/email]
    Larry Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: What constitute a DB2 client? Can some IBMers help ans. this licensing question??

    That was not the question.

    To answer the question, no you don't need any client licenses since your
    clients do not talk to DB2 directly, only indirectly through another
    application.

    "Larry" <lsedelsus.ibm.com> wrote in message
    news:3F5E9EEB.595D2AC7us.ibm.com...
    > Bill,
    >
    > If you license DB2 V8 Enterprise Server Edition and you only access DB2
    > data that resides on a UNIX server (and do not access any mainframe or
    > AS/400 data), you must license DB2 V8 ESE for the total # of processors on
    > the UNIX servers that DB2 resides on. This does not include host access,
    > Information Integrator, or any other adjunct products like Warehouse
    > manager, Cube Views, OLAP Server, etc.
    >
    > Larry Edelstein
    >
    > sql-db2-dba wrote:
    >
    > > We have an application running several daemon processes on a UNIX
    > > server. The "user" applications communicate directly with the server
    > > application via proprietory messages. Based on these messages the
    > > server processes query and update the databases which resides on the
    > > same UNIX server. The results if needed get passed back to the "users"
    > > via the same messaging system. No DB2 client software is installed in
    > > the "user" machines. Do we need to pay for licenses on these "user"
    > > computers/equipments?
    > >
    > > Thanks,
    > >
    > > Bill.
    > > [email]leungbaptea.com[/email]
    >

    Mark A Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: What constitute a DB2 client? Can some IBMers help ans. thislicensing question??

    Mark A wrote:
    > That was not the question.
    >
    > To answer the question, no you don't need any client licenses since your
    > clients do not talk to DB2 directly, only indirectly through another
    > application.
    I wouldn't be too sure about that. This goes back to the whole concept
    of named users, concurrent users, "internet/intranet" users.

    I would read

    [url]http://www7b.boulder.ibm.com/dmdd/library/techarticle/0211zikopoulos/0211zikopoulos.html[/url]


    This covers how DB2 is licensed. Pay attention to the Workgroup Server Edition
    and Workgroup Server Unlimited Edition discussion about named, concurrent, etc.
    users. And talk to your IBM Sales Rep. :-)


    Ian




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    Ian D Bjorhovde Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: What constitute a DB2 client? Can some IBMers help ans. this licensing question??

    > > To answer the question, no you don't need any client licenses since your
    > > clients do not talk to DB2 directly, only indirectly through another
    > > application.
    >
    > I wouldn't be too sure about that. This goes back to the whole concept
    > of named users, concurrent users, "internet/intranet" users.
    >
    > I would read
    >
    >
    [url]http://www7b.boulder.ibm.com/dmdd/library/techarticle/0211zikopoulos/0211zikopoulos.html[/url]
    >
    >
    > This covers how DB2 is licensed. Pay attention to the Workgroup Server
    Edition
    > and Workgroup Server Unlimited Edition discussion about named, concurrent,
    etc.
    > users. And talk to your IBM Sales Rep. :-)
    >
    >
    > Ian
    >
    Yes, you are right that one may need a certain number of licenses to cover
    the number of concurrent threads initiated by the application that talks to
    DB2. But that does not mean that it has any direct relationship to the
    number of clients that can potentially use the application. The number of
    licenses depends partly on how the application is coded and how many
    simultaneous instances of the application can execute and interface to DB2.
    Sorry for any confusion relating to my previous response.


    Mark A Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: What constitute a DB2 client? Can some IBMers help ans. this licensing question??

    The IBM's terms, concurrent users and multiplexing program are
    confusing. Okay, there are 12 server processes that make connection to
    the databases to do updates/select, etc. There are hundreds of
    "client" systems, which do not use DB2 software, communicating with
    another daemon process (on the same server) that does not make
    connection to the DB2 database. This non-DB2 process is the middleman
    between the DB2-bound processes and the "client" computers. Are these
    client computers concurrent users or the 12 DB2 server processes?
    Which are the multiplexing programs here?


    "Mark A" <maswitchboard.net> wrote in message news:<V0z7b.110$0S2.53235news.uswest.net>...
    > > > To answer the question, no you don't need any client licenses since your
    > > > clients do not talk to DB2 directly, only indirectly through another
    > > > application.
    > >
    > > I wouldn't be too sure about that. This goes back to the whole concept
    > > of named users, concurrent users, "internet/intranet" users.
    > >
    > > I would read
    > >
    > >
    > [url]http://www7b.boulder.ibm.com/dmdd/library/techarticle/0211zikopoulos/0211zikopoulos.html[/url]
    > >
    > >
    > > This covers how DB2 is licensed. Pay attention to the Workgroup Server
    > Edition
    > > and Workgroup Server Unlimited Edition discussion about named, concurrent,
    > etc.
    > > users. And talk to your IBM Sales Rep. :-)
    > >
    > >
    > > Ian
    > >
    > Yes, you are right that one may need a certain number of licenses to cover
    > the number of concurrent threads initiated by the application that talks to
    > DB2. But that does not mean that it has any direct relationship to the
    > number of clients that can potentially use the application. The number of
    > licenses depends partly on how the application is coded and how many
    > simultaneous instances of the application can execute and interface to DB2.
    > Sorry for any confusion relating to my previous response.
    sql-db2-dba Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: What constitute a DB2 client? Can some IBMers help ans. this licensing question??

    sql-db2-dba wrote:
    > The IBM's terms, concurrent users and multiplexing program are
    > confusing. Okay, there are 12 server processes that make connection to
    > the databases to do updates/select, etc. There are hundreds of
    > "client" systems, which do not use DB2 software, communicating with
    > another daemon process (on the same server) that does not make
    > connection to the DB2 database. This non-DB2 process is the middleman
    > between the DB2-bound processes and the "client" computers. Are these
    > client computers concurrent users or the 12 DB2 server processes?
    > Which are the multiplexing programs here?
    My understanding of "multiplexing" would mean that the application that
    works on behalf of n users requires n user licenses for DB2. User
    licenses (named or concurrent) refers to real, living, breathing bodies
    that use the data from the database. Note that IBM may make exceptions
    for this if those real, living, breathing bodies are, say, canines,
    felines, or the like.

    My understanding of this entire thread would mean you should be talking
    to your IBM or ISV sales rep rather than the techies in here ;-)
    > "Mark A" <maswitchboard.net> wrote in message
    > news:<V0z7b.110$0S2.53235news.uswest.net>...
    >> > > To answer the question, no you don't need any client licenses since
    >> > > your clients do not talk to DB2 directly, only indirectly through
    >> > > another application.
    >> >
    >> > I wouldn't be too sure about that. This goes back to the whole concept
    >> > of named users, concurrent users, "internet/intranet" users.
    >> >
    >> > I would read
    >> >
    >> >
    >>
    [url]http://www7b.boulder.ibm.com/dmdd/library/techarticle/0211zikopoulos/0211zikopoulos.html[/url]
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > This covers how DB2 is licensed. Pay attention to the Workgroup Server
    >> Edition
    >> > and Workgroup Server Unlimited Edition discussion about named,
    >> > concurrent,
    >> etc.
    >> > users. And talk to your IBM Sales Rep. :-)
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > Ian
    >> >
    >> Yes, you are right that one may need a certain number of licenses to
    >> cover the number of concurrent threads initiated by the application that
    >> talks to DB2. But that does not mean that it has any direct relationship
    >> to the number of clients that can potentially use the application. The
    >> number of licenses depends partly on how the application is coded and how
    >> many simultaneous instances of the application can execute and interface
    >> to DB2. Sorry for any confusion relating to my previous response.
    Darin McBride Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: What constitute a DB2 client? Can some IBMers help ans. this licensing question??

    > > The IBM's terms, concurrent users and multiplexing program are
    > > confusing. Okay, there are 12 server processes that make connection to
    > > the databases to do updates/select, etc. There are hundreds of
    > > "client" systems, which do not use DB2 software, communicating with
    > > another daemon process (on the same server) that does not make
    > > connection to the DB2 database. This non-DB2 process is the middleman
    > > between the DB2-bound processes and the "client" computers. Are these
    > > client computers concurrent users or the 12 DB2 server processes?
    > > Which are the multiplexing programs here?
    >
    > My understanding of "multiplexing" would mean that the application that
    > works on behalf of n users requires n user licenses for DB2. User
    > licenses (named or concurrent) refers to real, living, breathing bodies
    > that use the data from the database. Note that IBM may make exceptions
    > for this if those real, living, breathing bodies are, say, canines,
    > felines, or the like.
    >
    > My understanding of this entire thread would mean you should be talking
    > to your IBM or ISV sales rep rather than the techies in here ;-)
    I don't think that is correct. If the maximum number of threads to DB2
    created by the application is 12 at ay given time (assuming that is the
    situation here), you would only need 12 licenses. Otherwise, such if a web
    page contained data from a DB2 database, you would need a license for every
    person who ever accessed that webpage, which is absurd.


    Mark A Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: What constitute a DB2 client? Can some IBMers help ans. this licensing question??

    Mark A wrote:
    >> > The IBM's terms, concurrent users and multiplexing program are
    >> > confusing. Okay, there are 12 server processes that make connection to
    >> > the databases to do updates/select, etc. There are hundreds of
    >> > "client" systems, which do not use DB2 software, communicating with
    >> > another daemon process (on the same server) that does not make
    >> > connection to the DB2 database. This non-DB2 process is the middleman
    >> > between the DB2-bound processes and the "client" computers. Are these
    >> > client computers concurrent users or the 12 DB2 server processes?
    >> > Which are the multiplexing programs here?
    >>
    >> My understanding of "multiplexing" would mean that the application that
    >> works on behalf of n users requires n user licenses for DB2. User
    >> licenses (named or concurrent) refers to real, living, breathing bodies
    >> that use the data from the database. Note that IBM may make exceptions
    >> for this if those real, living, breathing bodies are, say, canines,
    >> felines, or the like.
    >>
    >> My understanding of this entire thread would mean you should be talking
    >> to your IBM or ISV sales rep rather than the techies in here ;-)
    >
    > I don't think that is correct. If the maximum number of threads to DB2
    > created by the application is 12 at ay given time (assuming that is the
    > situation here), you would only need 12 licenses. Otherwise, such if a web
    > page contained data from a DB2 database, you would need a license for
    > every person who ever accessed that webpage, which is absurd.
    Which is what the web or unlimited versions are all about.
    Darin McBride Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: What constitute a DB2 client? Can some IBMers help ans. this licensing question??

    > >> > The IBM's terms, concurrent users and multiplexing program are
    > >> > confusing. Okay, there are 12 server processes that make connection
    to
    > >> > the databases to do updates/select, etc. There are hundreds of
    > >> > "client" systems, which do not use DB2 software, communicating with
    > >> > another daemon process (on the same server) that does not make
    > >> > connection to the DB2 database. This non-DB2 process is the middleman
    > >> > between the DB2-bound processes and the "client" computers. Are these
    > >> > client computers concurrent users or the 12 DB2 server processes?
    > >> > Which are the multiplexing programs here?
    > >>
    > >> My understanding of "multiplexing" would mean that the application that
    > >> works on behalf of n users requires n user licenses for DB2. User
    > >> licenses (named or concurrent) refers to real, living, breathing bodies
    > >> that use the data from the database. Note that IBM may make exceptions
    > >> for this if those real, living, breathing bodies are, say, canines,
    > >> felines, or the like.
    > >>
    > >> My understanding of this entire thread would mean you should be talking
    > >> to your IBM or ISV sales rep rather than the techies in here ;-)
    > >
    > > I don't think that is correct. If the maximum number of threads to DB2
    > > created by the application is 12 at ay given time (assuming that is the
    > > situation here), you would only need 12 licenses. Otherwise, such if a
    web
    > > page contained data from a DB2 database, you would need a license for
    > > every person who ever accessed that webpage, which is absurd.
    >
    > Which is what the web or unlimited versions are all about.
    The following two paragraphs are from the IBM article about licensing at:
    [url]http://www7b.boulder.ibm.com/dmdd/library/techarticle/0211zikopoulos/0211zikopoulos.html[/url]

    "DB2 WSE is licensed by the Client-to-Server model using a concurrent
    (sometimes referred to as "capacity pricing") or registered user option."

    "The 'concurrent user license' is appropriate for applications or devices
    that have established a connection to one or more databases on one server. A
    user with multiple connections to a single server counts as only one
    concurrent user. The one exception is the case where multiple connections
    are made by a multiplexing program, application server, or other program
    that connects to DB2 UDB, providing access on behalf of other users. In the
    concurrent user model, the customer must ensure that each server is licensed
    for the maximum number of users that will use that server product at any one
    time. The base license cost ($999) still applies, and each concurrent user
    license costs $249."

    Notice that you can license by registered user OR by number of concurrent
    users. To quote the article "In the concurrent user model, the customer must
    ensure that each server is licensed for the maximum number of users that
    will use that server product at any one time." So if your application only
    can process 12 connections to DB2 simultaneously (because it can only
    process 12 clients at a time), you only need 12 licenses with the concurrent
    user licensing option.

    The section about multiplexing sounds like a description of your application
    which provides access to DB2 on behalf of other users, even if the same
    userid is always connected to DB2 by the server application (on behalf of
    the clients).


    Mark A Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: What constitute a DB2 client? Can some IBMers help ans. thislicensing question??

    Bottom line ... the questioner should contact his/her IBM rep. Anything is possible.

    But taken on the surface ...considering the licensing as described in the announcement
    letters

    - this isn't even an issue if purchasing DB2 UDB ESE without any other adjunct products and
    accessing only a database resident on the UNIX server (if accessing a DB2/390 or DB2/400
    database, then it becomes an issue)
    - this COULD be an issue if purchasing Workgroup Edition ... concentrators or application
    servers must be taken into account for user-based licensing ... i.e. doesn't matter how many
    UNIX processes or processors are involved in the determination of number of users. The
    actual # of users must be used in the licensing/purchase ... even if fewer server-based
    processes perform the db access on their behalf. As Darin said, that is the reason for the
    Unlimited Editions ... so that one doesn't have to count web-based users.

    Larry Edelstein

    Mark A wrote:
    > > >> > The IBM's terms, concurrent users and multiplexing program are
    > > >> > confusing. Okay, there are 12 server processes that make connection
    > to
    > > >> > the databases to do updates/select, etc. There are hundreds of
    > > >> > "client" systems, which do not use DB2 software, communicating with
    > > >> > another daemon process (on the same server) that does not make
    > > >> > connection to the DB2 database. This non-DB2 process is the middleman
    > > >> > between the DB2-bound processes and the "client" computers. Are these
    > > >> > client computers concurrent users or the 12 DB2 server processes?
    > > >> > Which are the multiplexing programs here?
    > > >>
    > > >> My understanding of "multiplexing" would mean that the application that
    > > >> works on behalf of n users requires n user licenses for DB2. User
    > > >> licenses (named or concurrent) refers to real, living, breathing bodies
    > > >> that use the data from the database. Note that IBM may make exceptions
    > > >> for this if those real, living, breathing bodies are, say, canines,
    > > >> felines, or the like.
    > > >>
    > > >> My understanding of this entire thread would mean you should be talking
    > > >> to your IBM or ISV sales rep rather than the techies in here ;-)
    > > >
    > > > I don't think that is correct. If the maximum number of threads to DB2
    > > > created by the application is 12 at ay given time (assuming that is the
    > > > situation here), you would only need 12 licenses. Otherwise, such if a
    > web
    > > > page contained data from a DB2 database, you would need a license for
    > > > every person who ever accessed that webpage, which is absurd.
    > >
    > > Which is what the web or unlimited versions are all about.
    >
    > The following two paragraphs are from the IBM article about licensing at:
    > [url]http://www7b.boulder.ibm.com/dmdd/library/techarticle/0211zikopoulos/0211zikopoulos.html[/url]
    >
    > "DB2 WSE is licensed by the Client-to-Server model using a concurrent
    > (sometimes referred to as "capacity pricing") or registered user option."
    >
    > "The 'concurrent user license' is appropriate for applications or devices
    > that have established a connection to one or more databases on one server. A
    > user with multiple connections to a single server counts as only one
    > concurrent user. The one exception is the case where multiple connections
    > are made by a multiplexing program, application server, or other program
    > that connects to DB2 UDB, providing access on behalf of other users. In the
    > concurrent user model, the customer must ensure that each server is licensed
    > for the maximum number of users that will use that server product at any one
    > time. The base license cost ($999) still applies, and each concurrent user
    > license costs $249."
    >
    > Notice that you can license by registered user OR by number of concurrent
    > users. To quote the article "In the concurrent user model, the customer must
    > ensure that each server is licensed for the maximum number of users that
    > will use that server product at any one time." So if your application only
    > can process 12 connections to DB2 simultaneously (because it can only
    > process 12 clients at a time), you only need 12 licenses with the concurrent
    > user licensing option.
    >
    > The section about multiplexing sounds like a description of your application
    > which provides access to DB2 on behalf of other users, even if the same
    > userid is always connected to DB2 by the server application (on behalf of
    > the clients).
    Larry Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: What constitute a DB2 client? Can some IBMers help ans. this licensing question??

    "Larry" <lsedelsus.ibm.com> wrote in message
    news:3F5FB206.687D1D9Dus.ibm.com...
    > Bottom line ... the questioner should contact his/her IBM rep. Anything is
    possible.
    >
    > But taken on the surface ...considering the licensing as described in the
    announcement
    > letters
    >
    > - this isn't even an issue if purchasing DB2 UDB ESE without any other
    adjunct products and
    > accessing only a database resident on the UNIX server (if accessing a
    DB2/390 or DB2/400
    > database, then it becomes an issue)
    > - this COULD be an issue if purchasing Workgroup Edition ... concentrators
    or application
    > servers must be taken into account for user-based licensing ... i.e.
    doesn't matter how many
    > UNIX processes or processors are involved in the determination of number
    of users. The
    > actual # of users must be used in the licensing/purchase ... even if fewer
    server-based
    > processes perform the db access on their behalf. As Darin said, that is
    the reason for the
    > Unlimited Editions ... so that one doesn't have to count web-based users.
    >
    > Larry Edelstein
    >
    I believe that the licensing language I quoted for DB2 Workgroup Edition is
    quite clear and does not need any further clarification. There is the option
    of licensing for the number of simultaneous users with WE, which you seem to
    be ignoring. It is up to the customer to ensure that the application limits
    the number of simultaneous users to the number of licenses purchased.

    If further clarification from IBM is required, I would contact a regional or
    national DB2 specialist at IBM. Contacting "his/her IBM rep" is waste of
    time for both parties involved, and I would not believe what a local IBM rep
    said anyway. My experience on this comes from 10 years experience working
    for IBM.


    Mark A Guest

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