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what's the deal at Kagi? - Mac Applications & Software

Oh, the tangle of lies told by Kagi. On September 18 I attempted a purchase via Kagi. The transaction was denied and Kagi's web site falsely claimed the credit card company denied the charge. So I called the credit card folks and they had no record of any denied charge. After I wrote to com, somebody claiming to be "Mike, admin for Kagi" wrote back that "Either the card or the email address have a block on them." Upon further inquiry, he admitted that Kagi was blocking the email address. I write "Mike" again and this time he tells me ...

  1. #1

    Default what's the deal at Kagi?

    Oh, the tangle of lies told by Kagi.

    On September 18 I attempted a purchase via Kagi. The transaction was
    denied and Kagi's web site falsely claimed the credit card company
    denied the charge. So I called the credit card folks and they had no
    record of any denied charge. After I wrote to com,
    somebody claiming to be "Mike, admin for Kagi" wrote back that "Either
    the card or the email address have a block on them." Upon further
    inquiry, he admitted that Kagi was blocking the email address. I write
    "Mike" again and this time he tells me a lie that Brian Clark (of Thoth)
    filed a fraud complaint against me. It took three emails to get this
    info out of them.

    Next I wrote the Brian Clark and he denied Kagi's claim and he wrote to
    Kagi to dispute Kagi's false statement about him. I received no reply
    from Kagi. So I tried writing other folks at kagi. I tried S. Kee
    Nethery III, Founder, President, CEO and Director at com. I
    tried Ty Shipman, Chief Technology Officer and Director at com.
    Both addresses found via their whois record. I also tried
    com, com, com, and com,
    addresses listed on their website. All of these people choose to ignore
    this problem, and seem to care little if they make false accusations
    against customers. Since both the President and CTO choose to ignore
    company dishonesty, it shouldn't surprise me that whatever underlings
    answer the other addresses do the same.

    Finally, on September 22 I posted this tale to comp.sys.mac.apps. In an
    interesting coincidence, just a few hours after my post I receive a
    letter from "Mike" stating that he had removed the block, but it would
    take 24 hours to take effect. This was just another in the string of
    lies told by Kagi. Today, September 29, still in place.

    I have again written the Kagi principles, and others, and they refuse to
    remove the block and refuse to provide any reason why it is still in
    place.

    I have found it interesting the number of folks I have heard from who
    feel that Kagi is no longer the reputable firm it once was. I have also
    started writing to some shareware authors that use Kagi, whose software
    I was interested in registering, and not surprisingly, have heard the
    same feelings even from some of them. Perhaps shareware authors will
    stop wanting to be associated with a company that engages in lies
    (slander? libel?) and use other services. Apparently the culture of
    falsehoods goes all the way to the top at Kagi.

    Do shareware authors want to associate with such a company?
    Do I really want to deal with shareware authors that choose to associate
    with a company that lies to its customers?
    Can we trust Kagi?
    David Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: what's the deal at Kagi?

    I've saved this message to my HD. Do keep us informed of future happenings.
    Too bad you haven't decided, for whatever reason, to sue!
    They're passing bad info here and there about you. Not so?
    And, about some of their shareware authors, from what you say.
    I'm going to see if a shareware author will accept another method of
    payment. If I have any future dealings with them.
    So far, I've not experienced any problems, but...it pays to be aware of
    stuff like this.

    keith whaley

    David Turley wrote: 
    Keith Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: what's the deal at Kagi?

    David Turley <com> writes:
     

    Oh, the angst of it all! Haven't you posted this soap opera before?
    --
    Philip Stripling | email to the replyto address is presumed
    Legal Assistance on the Web | spam and read later. email to philip
    http://www.PhilipStripling.com/ | my domain is read daily.
    Phil Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: what's the deal at Kagi?

    In article <tdl.com>,
    Phil Stripling <zzn.com> wrote:
     
    >
    > Oh, the angst of it all! Haven't you posted this soap opera before?[/ref]

    Surely you know how to killfile if it bothers you.
    David Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: what's the deal at Kagi?

    On 29 Sep 2003 18:36:32 -0700, Phil Stripling <zzn.com> wrote: 
    >
    > Oh, the angst of it all! Haven't you posted this soap opera before?[/ref]

    Seems familiar to me, too. I wonder what the other side of the story
    sounds like?


    Dave Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: what's the deal at Kagi?

    David Turley wrote:
     

    They can't reply to you if they fear a legal case is pending,
    because they know anything they say can be construed as an
    admission of guilt. This is sometimes called "stonewalling".

    You might as well contact an attorney at this point, as they
    need to face their problems and come up with a policy that
    doesn't get them into any more trouble. They served an useful
    purpose in the past, and I wouldn't want them to end up like Nixon
    or Enron.
    George Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: what's the deal at Kagi?

    David Turley <com> wrote:
     

    Yes, we know. You've posted it all before. This isn't your personal
    soapbox; save it until you have something new to report, okay?

    --
    Jeremy | com
    Jeremy Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: what's the deal at Kagi?

    In article <news.adelphia.net>,
    David Turley <com> wrote:
     
    > >
    > > Oh, the angst of it all! Haven't you posted this soap opera before?[/ref]
    >
    > Surely you know how to killfile if it bothers you.[/ref]

    You asked for it.

    *plonk*
    --
    D.F. Manno
    net

    Nobody Died When Clinton Lied
    D.F. Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: what's the deal at Kagi?

    In article <blaoq5$9qn7b$news.uni-berlin.de>,
    Dave Hinz <net> wrote:

     


    Ok, I'll tell you. First, for those of you that claimed it was a "soap
    opera" I'd like to see your proof that I made it up. Isn't that what
    soap operas are.

    Second, for those that suggested legal action, Kagi only told *ME* is
    was using fraud.

    Third, I finally heard from Kee at Kagio after my post. He has finally
    fixed the problem. Thank you. He said the block was still on, did not
    explain why "Mike" wouldn't reply. Kee did say I was too quick to assume
    malice, although it's been 12 days and many emails!

    For those that suffered through all that pain by having my two little
    posts added to the 1000's here, thank you. The last two responses I
    received from Kagi came after these posts. So now killfile me if you
    wish.
    David Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: what's the deal at Kagi?

    In article <gunslinger.net>, Jeremy
    <com> wrote:
     
    >
    > Yes, we know. You've posted it all before. This isn't your personal
    > soapbox; save it until you have something new to report, okay?[/ref]

    First, he *did* have something new to report -- namely, that the action
    promised by Kagi has not actually been taken.

    Second, if a company is ing you over, accusing you inappropriately
    of fraud, I think you've got a right to warn others. I, for one,
    appreciate hearing this, and am quite interested in the fact that we
    have not heard anything from a Kagi representative. Seems to me they
    should be responding on this topic to defend themselves, if they can.

    Third, if you don't want to read this thread, don't read it. It's your
    choice not to skip over it, so don't get ed that you chose to read
    something you didn't want to read.

    --
    -Thomas

    <http://www.bitjuggler.com/>
    Thomas Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: what's the deal at Kagi?

    In article <supernews.com>,
    "D.F. Manno" <net> wrote:
     
    >
    > You asked for it.
    >
    > *plonk*[/ref]

    What a WOman!

    --
    Enough <com>
    Enough Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: what's the deal at Kagi?

    In article <news.adelphia.net>,
    David Turley <com> wrote:
     

    Everyone's entitled to their opinion (and, this being Usenet, there's no
    particular reason that opinions need to be based in actual fact). I've
    known Kee Nethery since he was at Apple lo these many years ago, and I
    would assert that any statements such as the above would have no basis
    in reality.

    R.
    --
    Rich Siegel <net>
    Bare Bones Software, Inc. <http://www.barebones.com/>

    Someday I'll look back on all this and laugh... until they sedate me.
    Rich Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: what's the deal at Kagi?

    Rich Siegel <net> wrote:
     
    >
    > Everyone's entitled to their opinion (and, this being Usenet, there's no
    > particular reason that opinions need to be based in actual fact). I've
    > known Kee Nethery since he was at Apple lo these many years ago, and I
    > would assert that any statements such as the above would have no basis
    > in reality.[/ref]

    Agreed. m.

    --
    matt neuburg, phd = com, http://www.tidbits.com/matt/
    Read TidBITS! It's free and smart. http://www.tidbits.com
    matt Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: what's the deal at Kagi?

    Thomas Reed <spam.me> writes:
     

    It's Usenet, hon. _Everyone_ gets to post their opinion. Even you. Deal.
    --
    Philip Stripling | email to the replyto address is presumed
    Legal Assistance on the Web | spam and read later. email to philip
    http://www.PhilipStripling.com/ | my domain is read daily.
    Phil Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: what's the deal at Kagi?

    In article <tdl.com>,
    Phil Stripling <zzn.com> wrote:
     
    >
    > It's Usenet, hon. _Everyone_ gets to post their opinion. Even you. Deal.[/ref]

    CAT FIGHT! CAT FIGHT! I luv' Usenet!

    --
    Enough <com>
    Enough Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: what's the deal at Kagi?

    In article <tdl.com>, Phil Stripling
    <zzn.com> wrote:
     
    >
    > It's Usenet, hon.[/ref]

    *Hon*!? Sorry, Phil, I'm not into you that way.
     

    Ahh, so then you agree that complaining about the existence of this
    thread is ridiculous?

    --
    -Thomas

    <http://www.bitjuggler.com/>
    Thomas Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: what's the deal at Kagi?

    In article <1g23al5.bjt0y11airuwwN%com>,
    com (matt neuburg) wrote:
     
    > >
    > > Everyone's entitled to their opinion (and, this being Usenet, there's no
    > > particular reason that opinions need to be based in actual fact). I've
    > > known Kee Nethery since he was at Apple lo these many years ago, and I
    > > would assert that any statements such as the above would have no basis
    > > in reality.[/ref]
    >
    > Agreed. m.[/ref]

    'Me too' post are so sad! So sad!

    --
    Enough <com>
    Enough Guest

  18. #18

    Default Re: what's the deal at Kagi?

    In article <supernews.com>, Rich
    Siegel <net> wrote:
     
    >
    > Everyone's entitled to their opinion (and, this being Usenet, there's no
    > particular reason that opinions need to be based in actual fact). I've
    > known Kee Nethery since he was at Apple lo these many years ago, and I
    > would assert that any statements such as the above would have no basis
    > in reality.[/ref]

    Yes, I doubt that Kagi is "disreputable". However, you cannot assume
    just because you like Kee that there's nothing wrong here. While I
    seriously doubt that any deliberate harm is being done here(*), this
    story is a customer service nightmare. Service is not Kagi's strong
    suit, in my experience. The company is not aging well, and they are
    outdone by many other companies these days, such as eSellerate.

    Also, I have personally talked to people who, for one reason or
    another, refuse to use Kagi. Enough people to convince me I'm far from
    the only one with issues regarding Kagi's service. This should concern
    anyone using Kagi to sell their wares.


    * - I do have questions about Brian Clark's involvement, if (as
    claimed) he really did refuse the purchase of the OP based on nothing
    but who he is. Everyone is focusing on Kagi's poor handling of the
    situation and ignoring the fact that Brian's behavior caused it.
    Assuming, that is, that the story the OP tells is correct.

    --
    -Thomas

    <http://www.bitjuggler.com/>
    Thomas Guest

  19. #19

    Default Re: what's the deal at Kagi?

    In article <300920031222201309%spam.me>,
    Thomas Reed <spam.me> wrote:
     

    The Kagi part of this is settled. Brian Clark's disagreement with me
    (and vice versa) is irrelevant to that issue. As the OP I think I have
    the right to say that. (Even if free speach is a function of who
    disagrees with you.)
    David Guest

  20. #20

    Default Re: what's the deal at Kagi?

    Thomas Reed <spam.me> wrote:
     

    That was already reported in the original thread -- which was still going
    on when he decided to post the whole thing again.
     

    What if everyone who has ever had a bad experience with a company decided
    to post about it weekly?

    --
    Jeremy | com
    Jeremy Guest

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