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Which is the better Server OS - SCO

Which UNIX offering from SCO is typically used as a web/internet server? OpenServer or UnixWare?...

  1. #1

    Default Which is the better Server OS

    Which UNIX offering from SCO is typically used as a web/internet server?
    OpenServer or UnixWare?


    Tony Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: Which is the better Server OS

    Tony Bourke <net> wrote in message news:<kCxhb.61899$nyc.rr.com>... 

    Thats hard to say- probably depends alot on what amount of traffic you
    expect, what other jobs you are running, sql? java?..

    UnixWare is touted as the more "Enterprise" level of OS and openserver
    is the behind the scenes workhorse for the SMB...

    Jim
    Jim Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: Which is the better Server OS

    Are they EOLing any of them?

    I'm doing an evaluation, but I want to use the one that represents a
    multi-use web server, DB server, etc. My testbed system is a dual-proc
    box.

    Tony

    Jim Bonnet wrote:
     
    >
    >
    > Thats hard to say- probably depends alot on what amount of traffic you
    > expect, what other jobs you are running, sql? java?..
    >
    > UnixWare is touted as the more "Enterprise" level of OS and openserver
    > is the behind the scenes workhorse for the SMB...
    >
    > Jim[/ref]

    Tony Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: Which is the better Server OS

    On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:56:34 GMT, Tony Bourke
    <net> wrote:
     

    I assume you don't read the news, have failed to consider better
    alternatives and apparently have no idea of what you're doing or why
    you're doing it.

    SCO are going to be EOL'ed period. Not just the products; the company.
    Using SCO OS' for web services is just plain ridiculous - even SCO use
    Linux for their website. What possible reason is there for using an
    expensive, proprietary, and outdated OS for a website when obvious
    better choices are staring you in the face? You're just pouring your,
    or your clients money down the drain.

    --
    FyRE < "War: The way Americans learn geography" >
    FyRE Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: Which is the better Server OS

    Only a fool makes such assumptions and passes judgement without
    evaluations...

    Now, anyone have a recommendation with which one to select? OpenServer
    or UnixWare? Which would be best for an SMP web server/SQL server?
    Which stands up best to other operating system offerings?

    Cheers,

    Tony

    FyRE wrote:
     
    >
    >
    > I assume you don't read the news, have failed to consider better
    > alternatives and apparently have no idea of what you're doing or why
    > you're doing it.
    >
    > SCO are going to be EOL'ed period. Not just the products; the company.
    > Using SCO OS' for web services is just plain ridiculous - even SCO use
    > Linux for their website. What possible reason is there for using an
    > expensive, proprietary, and outdated OS for a website when obvious
    > better choices are staring you in the face? You're just pouring your,
    > or your clients money down the drain.
    >[/ref]

    Tony Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: Which is the better Server OS

    Tony Bourke wrote: 

    SCO uses Linux to power their own webservers - what does that tell you?

    Further, their is such an abundance of evidence that you must be a fool to
    have missed it.

    Best regards,

    Brian

    Brian Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: Which is the better Server OS

    FyRE <demon.ku.oc.x> wrote: 
     [/ref]
     
     


    That's just so dumb, and so ignorant.

    i understand that you hate SCO, and I understand why. I'm sure very
    few of us are happy about this: as I have said many times, they
    may have real justification for their actions, but that does not
    necessarily mean it was the right thing to do. I'm of the opinion
    that there were better ways to handle this, but last I checked, I'm
    not in charge. Unless my wife says so, of course. Whatever she says
    I'm in charge of, I definitely am.

    SCO estimates that there are a couple of million extant installations
    out there. They no doubt estimate on the high side, but revenues
    indicate that there is at least a significant percentage that
    really are still running and that upgrade at least once in a while.
    Surprising as it may be to you, there's even new business now and
    then: nothing like it was years ago, but that it happens at all
    in this crappy economy and with all the competition and all this
    negative crapola is something.

    No matter what happens, the products will survive as long as they
    would have anyway. I agree that betting on SCO being here in
    2038 is a long shot, but it's only slightly less likely than
    Microsoft surviving that long too. But the products won't
    disappear because of this, even if they have nothing real to
    use in court and end up paying out on countersuits. It's
    possible (though I think unlikely) that the assets could
    end up in someone elses hands, but regardless, SCO products
    will still be sold for a number of years at least. Who knows,
    they might even outlast the Evil Empire yet.. wouldn't that
    be a hoot?

    Don't let your emotions destroy your judgement. It just makes
    you look foolish.

    --
    com Unix/Linux/Mac OS X resources: http://aplawrence.com
    Get paid for writing about tech: http://aplawrence.com/publish.html
    tony@aplawrence.com Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: Which is the better Server OS

    On Sat, Oct 11, 2003, Tony Bourke wrote: 

    We built and sold our InterRack(rg) systems to ISPs based on OpenServer
    from 1994 through 1998 when we switched to Caldera OpenLinux. While you
    can use either OpenServer or UnixWare (OpenUnix) for web services, you will
    spend far more time trying to get things working, and performance will not
    be as good as on a Linux or FreeBSD system on given hardware. We have been
    using SuSE Linux since late 2002 when Caldera/SCO appeared to want out of
    the Linux business.

    Our switch from OpenServer to Linux was done many years before the current
    SCO debacle, and was done purely for technical reasons.

    Bill
    --
    INTERNET: COM Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
    UUCP: camco!bill PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
    FAX: (206) 232-9186 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820; (206) 236-1676
    URL: http://www.celestial.com/

    ``I don't make jokes, I just watch the Government and report the facts...''
    Will Rogers
    Bill Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: Which is the better Server OS

    I appreciate the suggestions, but I'm looking specifically for which of
    SCO's offerings that users would use a web server, and not what web
    servers would be better than anything SCO has to offer.

    Religious ferver and opinions aside, I'm just looking for some basic
    information, and I'm not looking to start a war, or involve myself in
    the current war.

    Thanks,

    Tony

    Bill Campbell wrote:
     
    >
    >
    > We built and sold our InterRack(rg) systems to ISPs based on OpenServer
    > from 1994 through 1998 when we switched to Caldera OpenLinux. While you
    > can use either OpenServer or UnixWare (OpenUnix) for web services, you will
    > spend far more time trying to get things working, and performance will not
    > be as good as on a Linux or FreeBSD system on given hardware. We have been
    > using SuSE Linux since late 2002 when Caldera/SCO appeared to want out of
    > the Linux business.
    >
    > Our switch from OpenServer to Linux was done many years before the current
    > SCO debacle, and was done purely for technical reasons.
    >
    > Bill
    > --
    > INTERNET: COM Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
    > UUCP: camco!bill PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
    > FAX: (206) 232-9186 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820; (206) 236-1676
    > URL: http://www.celestial.com/
    >
    > ``I don't make jokes, I just watch the Government and report the facts...''
    > Will Rogers[/ref]

    Tony Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: Which is the better Server OS

    On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 17:15:03 +0000 (UTC), com wrote:

    [...]
     
    >
    >That's just so dumb, and so ignorant.
    >
    >i understand that you hate SCO, and I understand why. I'm sure very
    >few of us are happy about this: as I have said many times, they
    >may have real justification for their actions, but that does not
    >necessarily mean it was the right thing to do. I'm of the opinion
    >that there were better ways to handle this, but last I checked, I'm
    >not in charge. Unless my wife says so, of course. Whatever she says
    >I'm in charge of, I definitely am.[/ref]

    ;-) I'm hearing that... Funny how I only get to be in charge of the
    crap stuff though; like taking out the garbage...

    [...]
     

    While it's true that I find SCO's actions absolutely repugnant, and
    personally see no benefit in using their products; indeed I feel it's
    an incredibly bad business decision, almost on par with switching over
    to BeOS 3 years ago, I honestly don't believe SCO will be around in
    ANY form within 2 years. 3 at most.

    It's not just that they've lied, libled, misquoted, stolen code,
    pumped and dumped stock, alienated the entire open source community
    and acted like complete s in public. It's not even that their
    products are now trailing the opensource alternatives by a long long
    way. No, the reason is that Darl and his gang gambled on getting rich
    quick(er) by forcing IBM to buy them out, but it's all backfiring big
    time! IBM have played the famous "patent" card, neatly covering ALL of
    SCO's product line. If (when) IBM win the case, SCO as a company will
    have no products to sell (not that they're developing a whole lot - if
    anything - now). I'm not a lawyer, but I'm guessing that if some other
    company bought up the carcase of SCO once Darl has finished gutting
    it, the new owners would be prevented from offering the patent
    infringing code too. When a tiny company like SCO start taking
    pot-shots at the World's largest computer company with little (maybe
    no) evidence to back up their case, the writing's on the wall.

    Speaking of evidence, I've also noticed they've already started
    stalling for time to produce anything in both the IBM and Redhat
    cases. Doesn't look good, does it? They've been planning this for
    months now (since a few weeks after Darl took up his current position
    it's reported), so why are they suddenly scrabbling around for facts?
    Doesn't look good, does it? ;-)

    I'll be absolutely overjoyed to see this company crushed flat, with
    absolutely nothing left to show it ever existed. Of course, many here
    in this forum have a vested interest in making money by pushing SCO at
    customers who'd be far better off going with something else, which is
    why they continue to defend this debacle. However, literally millions
    of people in the World of IT will be overjoyed to see them splattered
    all around the court-rooms.

    --
    FyRE < "War: The way Americans learn geography" >
    FyRE Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: Which is the better Server OS

    In article <mi.celestial.com>,
    Bill Campbell <com> wrote: [/ref]
     [/ref]
     

    Several years ago I moved webservers running Netscape on
    SIG Challenge servers [MIPS 4400 CHIP] to iNTEL base commodity
    motherboard boxes with CPUs running at 1/2 the speed and 1/2 the
    memory with Apache on FreeBSD 2.7 ?? - and got at least a two-fold
    improvement. The fact that $2000 worth of hardware and software
    that was free except for compile time replaced a $15,000+ box
    and a $2000 server also was a plus.

    When I did that a friend who ran a successful ISP [and was bought
    out and he retired with the 7+ figures he got] said he would
    never put an SGI or and SCO system on the 'net. But that was in 96
    or so - when everything was not as secure as it is today.

    But as to the original posters question as to what is better
    for him of OSR5 or Unixware - he gave no details as to what
    his needs are.

    I'm just setting up some streaming broadcast and if he's going to
    be doing similar things I suspect the performance on the larger
    sized files would tip the scales in favor of UW. If it's not
    going to be seriously stressed server perhaps the familiarity
    of OSR5 may be better.

    I do not know how the two SMP implementations compare but a couple
    of years ago the UW SMP was reported by users on this NG to have
    better performance.

    More details would help including projected useage of both
    the web and the SQL server. If he has no legacy systems
    I'd probably go with the UW side just because it is further
    advanced. Being able to add drives, tapes, etc. without having
    to reconfigure the kernel, and the system automatically identify
    ID's for the devices and configuring them is also a big plus.

    Bill


    --
    Bill Vermillion - bv wjv . com
    Bill Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: Which is the better Server OS

    FyRE <demon.ku.oc.x> wrote:
     

    You'd lose that bet.
     


    You have nothing that justifies such wild accusations.
     

    That at least might be something you could at least get some agreement
    on. The rest is nonsense.
     

    That's not true either. Unixware is hardly "trailing". OpenServer
    is, but that was deliberate strategy on SCO's part. And apparently
    they now have plans to bring it up to speed.

    No, the reason is that Darl and his gang gambled on getting rich 

    Don't gloat too much about that. IBM's patent bullying could
    be serious business, and not just for SCO.
     

    If there were truth in what you say, then the handwriting indeed would
    be obvious: IBM would pick up the product and continue to distribute
    it.
     

    Nonsense. Few of us ever "push" anything. Most of the people here
    are administrators and service oriented resellers who long ago
    started doing Linux, BSD or whatever. The type of reseller
    who did "pushing" for the sake of sales rarely frequented this
    newsgroup anyway, and moved to pushing Microsoft long ago.

    --
    com Unix/Linux/Mac OS X resources: http://aplawrence.com
    Get paid for writing about tech: http://aplawrence.com/publish.html
    tony@aplawrence.com Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: Which is the better Server OS

    On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 11:08:45 +0000 (UTC), com wrote: 
    >
    >
    >You have nothing that justifies such wild accusations.[/ref]

    So the claimed stolen code shown at the SCOForum wasn't a LIE?
     
    >
    >That's not true either. Unixware is hardly "trailing".[/ref]

    So, that would explain why SCO choses to host the www.sco.com website
    using Linux?
     
    >
    >If there were truth in what you say, then the handwriting indeed would
    >be obvious: IBM would pick up the product and continue to distribute
    >it.[/ref]

    IBM has a great interest in discouraging lawsuits against it. That's why
    forced buyout is not going to happen.


    Joe Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: Which is the better Server OS

    Tony Bourke wrote: 

    Tony,

    I think (given they are equally priced - at least here in Italy)
    UnixWare7 might be the choice since it has some feature which OS5 lacks
    (eg, >2GB files support, better scalability in SMP environment, very
    good filesystem and so on).

    I think the general opinion is to switch to Linux/FreeBSD if you want a
    robust, effective WEB/network server: AFAIK, Linux offers superior
    network capabilities that neither OS5 nor UW7 can offer.

    However, keep in mind that, with UnixWare7, you're able to run
    unmodified Linux apps under the LKP (Linux Kernel Personality)
    environment so (as an example) if you want to run the Linux version of
    Apache or OpenOffice, you can do it without having to recompile the
    sources under UW7.

    Also, starting with rel 7.1.3, you can run OS5 binaries under UW7 as
    well thanks to the "free-of-charge" OKP (OpenServer Kernel Personality).

    So, to make a long story short, I think UW7 is an excellent application
    server, a good choice for databases and back-end solutions: I do __NOT__
    think (but again, this is my personal opinion) it's well suited for
    network intensive applications or WEB applications, mainly due to the
    lack of a good firewall/filter/NAT mechanism (and don't tell me the
    "scoadmin -> Packet Filter Manager" is a good one :-) and overall
    network performances a bit slower than other counterparts (Linux "in
    primis").

    Just my 2 cents,
    Roberto
    --
    Roberto Zini - Technical Support Manager - email:r.zini<AT>strhold.it
    Technical Support Manager -- Strhold Evolution Division R.E. (ITALY)
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Has anybody around here seen an aircraft carrier?"
    (Pete "Maverick" Mitchell - Top Gun)

    Roberto Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: Which is the better Server OS

    Hi Roberto,

    Thanks for the response. Now, does anyone know how to go about getting
    an evaluation copy of UnixWare (including media or other way to install
    the OS) without spending a ton of money :)

    BTW, my testbed is a dual 600 MHz SCSI 2U system with 512 MB RAM. I'll
    be testing Apache as well as some file system benchmarks and perhaps SQL.

    Cheers,

    Tony

    Roberto Zini wrote:
     
    >
    > Tony,
    >
    > I think (given they are equally priced - at least here in Italy)
    > UnixWare7 might be the choice since it has some feature which OS5 lacks
    > (eg, >2GB files support, better scalability in SMP environment, very
    > good filesystem and so on).
    >
    > I think the general opinion is to switch to Linux/FreeBSD if you want a
    > robust, effective WEB/network server: AFAIK, Linux offers superior
    > network capabilities that neither OS5 nor UW7 can offer.
    >
    > However, keep in mind that, with UnixWare7, you're able to run
    > unmodified Linux apps under the LKP (Linux Kernel Personality)
    > environment so (as an example) if you want to run the Linux version of
    > Apache or OpenOffice, you can do it without having to recompile the
    > sources under UW7.
    >
    > Also, starting with rel 7.1.3, you can run OS5 binaries under UW7 as
    > well thanks to the "free-of-charge" OKP (OpenServer Kernel Personality).
    >
    > So, to make a long story short, I think UW7 is an excellent application
    > server, a good choice for databases and back-end solutions: I do __NOT__
    > think (but again, this is my personal opinion) it's well suited for
    > network intensive applications or WEB applications, mainly due to the
    > lack of a good firewall/filter/NAT mechanism (and don't tell me the
    > "scoadmin -> Packet Filter Manager" is a good one :-) and overall
    > network performances a bit slower than other counterparts (Linux "in
    > primis").
    >
    > Just my 2 cents,
    > Roberto[/ref]

    Tony Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: Which is the better Server OS

    Tony Bourke <net> wrote in message news:<net>... 

    Tony,

    There has been no 'free' neither 'free downloadable' SCO flavor till
    now.

    Years ago SCO offered their OpenServer 5.0.5, and UnixWare 7,
    under 'SCO Free Products Licensing' (this business stopped couple of
    years ago) but every delivered package had nominal price, plus
    shipping/handling,
    plus appropriate taxes.

    If someone wants to give any SCO OS as a 'gift', the only reason is
    that person wants to open a potentially new market for the service
    charges
    - $100+ per hour.

    So to make your query more efficient, make a little change and ask if
    someone wants to *sell* his, or her, evaluation copy.

    I am pretty sure that people would respond to that.


    Regards,


    S.
    Stefan Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: Which is the better Server OS

    Tony Bourke wrote: 

    Tony,

    as far as I know, there's not a free evaluation copy of UW7.

    What about getting in touch with your nearest SCO's distributor
    (assuming there are still some ..., well, we're still one of 'em ... at
    the minute :-) ?

    Best,
    Roberto
    --
    Roberto Zini - Technical Support Manager - email:r.zini<AT>strhold.it
    Technical Support Manager -- Strhold Evolution Division R.E. (ITALY)
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Has anybody around here seen an aircraft carrier?"
    (Pete "Maverick" Mitchell - Top Gun)

    Roberto Guest

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