Why is iShell so easy? What am I missing?

[brrr_boy@yahoo.com]

Hi All,

I was recently tasked w/ creating a Mac/Win CDRom and was told by
folks I'd need Director. But one colleague/friend said "check out
iShell."

So I did, and it seems really easy. The eval version works and I've
even put my own content in there and saved it. But WHAT AM I MISSING?
Is it just that Director has been around longer? (I think iShell's
been around for 5 or 6 years). I didn't want to start my eval of
Director until I'm really set to get into the research hard core.

So, before I start my Director dilligence, and, start plunking down
cash, I was curious what you all on this list know because every one
seems quite helpful and friendly.

Brrr

[JB]

Glancing at their literature, does make it look quick and easy to create
a simple hybred CD, I have to wonder how it's limitations compare to
director.

There are a ton more developers out there aquainted with director, it's
good to know that people with the know how are available to help mak a
deadline.

Doesn''t look like price is dramaticaly different, If you got the Silver
pachage and one of the high priced 3rd party extensions, you would be
close to the cost of director MX 2004, a single copy of this latest
version of director can for the first time create projector for both
Macs and PCs.


Hee's iShell's FAQ Mac comparison:


Q: How does iShell 4 compare to Director MX?


A: With iShell 4 CD-ROM's are burned and formatted directly from within
the product with the click of a button. Additional 3rd party software
products are required to burn and format Director MX projects for CD-ROM.


Unlike Director, authoring in iShell takes place in the "Layout" or an
"Outline" window. The media elements are the central part of the window
where you can see more or less detail about a particular element. iShell
has the ability to integrate time-based elements, however time doesn't
dominate the user interface as it does in Director. Tribeworks Gold and
Education Members have access to the Software Developers Kit, which
allows programmersto extend iShell's basic functionality

[Rob Dillon]

Before you plunk down anything, you could download the free 30 trial of
Director.

IShell is a fine product. It even has some of the capabilities of
Director. But at a much higher price. IShell is a tiered subscription
product. You can buy a stripped, single user, copy, but that won't get
you very far.

You might also look at Supercard, Frontier, RealBasic, and Revolution,
or something like that.

The fact that iShell has a CD burning component is hardly a compelling
reason to purchase the product.

I don't find iShell easy to use. I find it confining and confusing, but
that's just me.

One of the most endearing features of Director is that it will allow me
to do anything that I want. Most of these other apps, Flash included,
do not. I have to work within their confines. That's an unacceptable
compomise. I can't tell a client that I can't complete a project
because the toolset that I use is not capable. I need to use a toolset
that can do what I need.

It's good to have options. Choose carefully.

--
Rob
_______
Rob Dillon
Team Macromedia
[url]http://www.ddg-designs.com[/url]
412-243-9119

[url]http://www.macromedia.com/software/trial/[/url]

[klgc]

I have in the last few years reviewed a number of multimedia presentation
applications and found them roughly proportionate relative to price.

One exception was a package that cost about nine elevenths of Director. After
a series of evaluation projects by several different team members, the client
was so impressed that they purchased the package and were phasing out my
involvement since they had sufficient skills for the new application. Then
they got into a full blown project, no viedo but with hundreds of images,
numerous animated GIFs, numerous sound tracks and considerable scripting (JS)
for interaction. It seems there was a threshold, beyond which there were
memory (?) management problems or some other design limitation/flaw that caused
crashes, and try as they might, no workaround was found. You can imagine the
interviening activity, but the final result was that the client wrote of the
package and picked up where they left off with Director.

A couple qualifications here. First, I have not had any experience with
iShell, but if I were to look into it I would begin by looking for
"significant" projects that had been produced with the product. Second, I
would welcome some serious competition to Director because it might prod
Macromedia into devoting the necessary resources to their Director product to
improve the design and maybe even integrate some of the many other tangents
they are off on (and/or significantly improve existing integrations). I
personally think there is more room for improvement than the "business
beancounters" think is worthwhile, or put another way that the "quality"
Director presentation market is just as important as the "quantity" Flash/web"
market.

Just one take,
Lee C

[brrr_boy@yahoo.com]

"klgc" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message news:<c7au4b$1a0$1@forums.macromedia.com>...

> I have in the last few years reviewed a number of multimedia presentation
> applications and found them roughly proportionate relative to price.
>
> One exception was a package that cost about nine elevenths of Director. After
> a series of evaluation projects by several different team members, the client
> was so impressed that they purchased the package and were phasing out my
> involvement since they had sufficient skills for the new application. Then
> they got into a full blown project, no viedo but with hundreds of images,
> numerous animated GIFs, numerous sound tracks and considerable scripting (JS)
> for interaction. It seems there was a threshold, beyond which there were
> memory (?) management problems or some other design limitation/flaw that caused
> crashes, and try as they might, no workaround was found. You can imagine the
> interviening activity, but the final result was that the client wrote of the
> package and picked up where they left off with Director.
>
> A couple qualifications here. First, I have not had any experience with
> iShell, but if I were to look into it I would begin by looking for
> "significant" projects that had been produced with the product. Second, I
> would welcome some serious competition to Director because it might prod
> Macromedia into devoting the necessary resources to their Director product to
> improve the design and maybe even integrate some of the many other tangents
> they are off on (and/or significantly improve existing integrations). I
> personally think there is more room for improvement than the "business
> beancounters" think is worthwhile, or put another way that the "quality"
> Director presentation market is just as important as the "quantity" Flash/web"
> market.
>
> Just one take,
> Lee C

Hi All,
Thanks for the feedback!!! I think my project will be quite simple,
so, Lee's note is good, but, I'm hoping (fingers crossed) that
whatever I choose I don't end up in that situation.

The 30 day Director trial. . . what happens if I'm still amidst
research? (That's one thing I did find out for sure about the iShell
product, my friend who told me of it said, even after 30 days you can
extend teh eval copy and it's still fully functional.) So, I just
want to know the restrictions (if any) on the Director demo before
grabbing it.

But regardless, I'm looking at deploying around 6-12 weeks from now
anyhow.

Thanks again.

B-B

[Eclectic Four]

[email]brrr_boy@yahoo.com[/email] wrote in message news:<3be865f0.0405051239.2822e2b@posting.google.c om>...

> "klgc" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message news:<c7au4b$1a0$1@forums.macromedia.com>...

> > I have in the last few years reviewed a number of multimedia presentation
> > applications and found them roughly proportionate relative to price.
> >
> > One exception was a package that cost about nine elevenths of Director. After
> > a series of evaluation projects by several different team members, the client
> > was so impressed that they purchased the package and were phasing out my
> > involvement since they had sufficient skills for the new application. Then
> > they got into a full blown project, no viedo but with hundreds of images,
> > numerous animated GIFs, numerous sound tracks and considerable scripting (JS)
> > for interaction. It seems there was a threshold, beyond which there were
> > memory (?) management problems or some other design limitation/flaw that caused
> > crashes, and try as they might, no workaround was found. You can imagine the
> > interviening activity, but the final result was that the client wrote of the
> > package and picked up where they left off with Director.
> >
> > A couple qualifications here. First, I have not had any experience with
> > iShell, but if I were to look into it I would begin by looking for
> > "significant" projects that had been produced with the product. Second, I
> > would welcome some serious competition to Director because it might prod
> > Macromedia into devoting the necessary resources to their Director product to
> > improve the design and maybe even integrate some of the many other tangents
> > they are off on (and/or significantly improve existing integrations). I
> > personally think there is more room for improvement than the "business
> > beancounters" think is worthwhile, or put another way that the "quality"
> > Director presentation market is just as important as the "quantity" Flash/web"
> > market.
> >
> > Just one take,
> > Lee C

>
> Hi All,
> Thanks for the feedback!!! I think my project will be quite simple,
> so, Lee's note is good, but, I'm hoping (fingers crossed) that
> whatever I choose I don't end up in that situation.
>
> The 30 day Director trial. . . what happens if I'm still amidst
> research? (That's one thing I did find out for sure about the iShell
> product, my friend who told me of it said, even after 30 days you can
> extend teh eval copy and it's still fully functional.) So, I just
> want to know the restrictions (if any) on the Director demo before
> grabbing it.
>
> But regardless, I'm looking at deploying around 6-12 weeks from now
> anyhow.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> B-B

BrrBoy

I can tell you iShell 4 is something else. You're burning a CD in 20
minutes. So far, no limitations that I've hit, it's just very
different from Director in its approach... more, object oriented.
(It helps me to *think* of it like making multiple web pages, but, the
outcome is the same as Director... a cross platform .exe/application)

You can have iShell actually grab all content and display it from a
database, so once you have something set up once it's easy to re-use
your code (but it's all drag and drop).

And they certainly do have some BIG name titles (Nat. Geographic, tons
of Edu things etc.) But, if you have questions and send them to them
they will answer.

HTH,

EF

[Mark A. Boyd]

[email]eclecticfour@yahoo.com[/email] (Eclectic Four) wrote in
news:a3db651b.0405060716.1a59941d@posting.google.c om:

> I can tell you iShell 4 is something else. You're burning a CD in 20
> minutes.

Somehow I knew you would chime in here. Just curious, what kind of projects
do you do that can be done in 20 minutes? How long would the same project
take in Director (assuming an equivalent knowledge of both programs)?


--
Mark A. Boyd
Keep-On-Learnin' :)

[coolvini]

Guys I have try iShell after all this advertize that see here from anonumous
mails like this one

It's total mouse oriented program very hard to work with, nice in look but
hard to work
It's nothing compare to directory and have not include any real script
engine...

So it's a good try as advertize but iShell is not the style of director
Personnally I wish to get a second program like or better director - but
iShell is far way from that.


Vini

[Eclectic Four]

"Mark A. Boyd" <mblist@sanDotrr.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94E1C858CE22BmblistssanDotrrcom@216.104.2 12.96>...

> [email]eclecticfour@yahoo.com[/email] (Eclectic Four) wrote in
> news:a3db651b.0405060716.1a59941d@posting.google.c om:
>

> > I can tell you iShell 4 is something else. You're burning a CD in 20
> > minutes.

>
> Somehow I knew you would chime in here. Just curious, what kind of projects
> do you do that can be done in 20 minutes? How long would the same project
> take in Director (assuming an equivalent knowledge of both programs)?

Sorry, no, no no. The project didn't take 20 minutes (I'm still
working on that!) just to burn the first disk cross platform is
really easy. That's what I meant.

We're still researching stuff, need to display 10-12 videos, few
hundred stills, audio throughout, links to the client's website etc.
So far, going well in BOTH programs, but much faster on the iShell
side.

EF

[rongscd]

I think..... if you want to control all object by yourself ....Director Lingo script is very good
iShell ....simple to use but not simple and hard for me to control my media....

[Mark A. Boyd]

[email]eclecticfour@yahoo.com[/email] (Eclectic Four) wrote in
news:a3db651b.0405070754.593d3780@posting.google.c om:

> "Mark A. Boyd" <mblist@sanDotrr.com> wrote in message
> news:<Xns94E1C858CE22BmblistssanDotrrcom@216.104.2 12.96>...

>> Just curious, what kind of
>> projects do you do that can be done in 20 minutes? How long would the
>> same project take in Director (assuming an equivalent knowledge of
>> both programs)?

>
> Sorry, no, no no. The project didn't take 20 minutes (I'm still
> working on that!) just to burn the first disk cross platform is
> really easy. That's what I meant.

OK, that makes sense. Toast on a Mac is easy, too, but I guess iShell has
it all built in.

> We're still researching stuff, need to display 10-12 videos, few
> hundred stills, audio throughout, links to the client's website etc.
> So far, going well in BOTH programs, but much faster on the iShell
> side.

Sounds pretty good. Have you already taken the project to that level?
With all those bitmaps, how is it for memory management? Does it give you
any control over memory?

Does it have a scripting language that can allow you to create custom
calculators? Does it offer anything Director doesn't? We're sitting on a
few Director licenses which can already do all of the above, so it would
be difficult to bring in a tool that doesn't offer a lot over what we
already have.

I realize I could answer some of these questions by visiting the site,
but you're already excited about the product and can probably answer them
here.


--
Mark A. Boyd
Keep-On-Learnin' :)

[Mark A. Boyd]

"Mark A. Boyd" <mblist@sanDotrr.com> wrote in
news:Xns94E3BDB79C244mblistssanDotrrcom@216.104.21 2.96:

> I realize I could answer some of these questions by visiting the site,
> but you're already excited about the product and can probably answer
> them here.

Scratch that, it really is off topic in here. I'll check the site.

If you do want to email me, replace Dot with . in my address.


--
Mark A. Boyd
Keep-On-Learnin' :)

[klgc]

Remember the ?revelation? over the book reviews on Amazon where the authors
were posting anonymous glowing reviews of there own books, and you already know
how much to trust the user review sites where the product sellers load up the
reviews in favor of their products.

I don?t know that such is the case here, but the overly positive comments seem
to be coming from those with no previous posts. iShell MAY be a good product
for a simpler type of presentation but from the ?less than glowing? comments,
and their site, I suspect it is not in the league of Director. I am turned off
by this type of selling (if such is the case), and by the tiered subscription
model of the product. Such smacks of more salesman hype than technical
foundation.

However, before you pat yourselves on the back Macromedia, you might note that
while you are setting on your laurels others are innovating. There is plenty
of room for serious improvement of Director if you wish to maintain your market
dominance.

Lee C

[Mark]

"klgc" <com> wrote in
news:c7k7g4$b07$macromedia.com:
 

Never heard of the Amazon thing, but as a usenet old-timer, I'm very
aware of the practice - and have even shot down one or two in these
newsgroups.
 

Which is highly suspicious. And the fact that the OP of this thread posts
from a Yahoo account (as Eclectic Four does) doesn't help.

I started watching EF for that reason when he/she first started
mentioning the product. He/she did have one single message which, IIRC,
was an answer to somebody's Director question.

While that is a miserable track record and is still suspect, I am of the
impression that EF is actually evaluating both products. I'm just giving
him/her the benefit of the doubt so far.
 

I found some interesting threads today in the Direct-L archives,
including one or two folks with lots of experience with iShell. (I
subscribe to the list, but only skimmed over last month's thread)

http://tinyurl.com/3cxyt

After reviewing the Tribeworks site and reading those threads, I'm not
inclined to try the product.
 

And this is the biggest reason I didn't object to his/her posts :) Of
course, it has the potential to get out of hand if not quashed in time.


--
Mark A. Boyd
Keep-On-Learnin' :)