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Will a SCSI CDrom work in an Ultra 10? - Sun Solaris

I am planning to swap the IDE hard disc in my Ultra 10 for a SCSI disc. I also have an extra NEC or Toshiba SCSI CDROM, and I was thinking about swapping the IDE CD for the SCSI one at the same time. If I do this, will I be able to boot and install Solaris off the SCSI CDROM? If I have 2 scsi hard discs, and 1 scsi CDROM, what would scsi IDs would be appropriate? I had 2 Ultra 10s that I converted to SCSI hard drives about 3 years ago, but I can't remember what ...

  1. #1

    Default Will a SCSI CDrom work in an Ultra 10?

    I am planning to swap the IDE hard disc in my Ultra 10 for a
    SCSI disc. I also have an extra NEC or Toshiba SCSI CDROM,
    and I was thinking about swapping the IDE CD for the SCSI one
    at the same time.

    If I do this, will I be able to boot and install Solaris off
    the SCSI CDROM?

    If I have 2 scsi hard discs, and 1 scsi CDROM, what would
    scsi IDs would be appropriate?


    I had 2 Ultra 10s that I converted to SCSI hard drives about 3
    years ago, but I can't remember what I used for the scsi IDs.
    All I remember is that I changed something minor in OBP, and
    then everything was fine. I also remember that updating the
    OBP was a little different when doing it from a scsi drive, but
    I can't remember what - maybe the filename or location...

    tia
    Bill


    Bill Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: Will a SCSI CDrom work in an Ultra 10?

    HI,
    Bill S. wrote: 
    Fine but why, if you put them on the same SCSI chain(CD and HD) then the
    HD can become slower due to the SCSI bus follows the slowest device
    which should be the CD so stick with the IDE?

    Maybe it is better to install a new DVD-ROM on IDE instead like the new
    Pioneer A06!
     
    If the SCSI controller is a SUN controller like Sun Swift and others. 
    CDROM should be 6, HD for root filesystem could be anything like 3 which
    was for the old SUN WS, and now I think it is 2, for the 2:nd, you can
    pick 1.

     

    When you start installing Solaris after installed the disks the install
    will change you boot device to the correct one, no worries.

    /michael

    Michael Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: Will a SCSI CDrom work in an Ultra 10?

    Michael Laajanen wrote:
     

    That's only the case if he uses LVD SCSI controller and HD and a SE SCSI
    CDROM on the same bus, in which case the whole Bus will switch down to SE
    (UW-SCSI 40MB/s). Otherwise the CDROM never will slow down the HD,
    especially if he uses an SE SCSI Controller.

    But then, the question remains why to switch the CDROM from IDE to SCSI.
    Unlike on HD's SCSI has no advantage for CDROM's, and if the current IDE
    CDROM isn't slower than the SCSI CDROM's the OP has then replacing the CDROM
    with a SCSI device would be nonsense...
     

    Yes, or any of the many other good and fast IDE CD-/DVDROM's or -Recorders.
     
    > If the SCSI controller is a SUN controller like Sun Swift and others.[/ref]

    Almost any SCSI controller using a NCR/Symbios Logic/LSI Logic chip shoudl
    work perfectly with the U10...

    Benjamin


    Benjamin Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: Will a SCSI CDrom work in an Ultra 10?

    > > Fine but why, if you put them on the same SCSI chain(CD and HD) then 
    >
    > That's only the case if he uses LVD SCSI controller and HD and a SE SCSI
    > CDROM on the same bus, in which case the whole Bus will switch down to SE
    > (UW-SCSI 40MB/s). Otherwise the CDROM never will slow down the HD,
    > especially if he uses an SE SCSI Controller.[/ref]

    The CDROM will be on a 50-pin cable, and the hard drive will be on
    a 68-pin cable, so they will not interfere with each other.

    The motivation for doing this is that this is an old U10/300 that I had
    sold, and I am getting back. It has a slow CDROM, and I have a 40x
    SCSI CDROM that I am not using, to put in it. The advantage of this
    over a new DVD drive is that the cost is $0.

    Also, I am upgrading the motherboard and CPU, and plan to give the
    replaced parts - including the IDE CDROM - to someone else.

    The controller is a Symbios Logic 8751SP, which I had sitting around
    too. I may add a LSIU80LVD or LSIU160 later - if I determine if
    these are supported by glm - or whatever the current driver is.

    -Bill


    Bill Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: Will a SCSI CDrom work in an Ultra 10?


    "Bill S." <com> skrev i melding
    news:c7Jfb.46514$austin.rr.com...
    [...] 

    Share the results, I've wondering about that for quite some time.
    Torsten Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: Will a SCSI CDrom work in an Ultra 10?

    >> The controller is a Symbios Logic 8751SP, which I had sitting around [/ref]
     


    NCR/Symbios/Lsi Logic 875-based SCSI controllers do work well,but
    a few - like Tekram - will not work. I am sure there have been
    numerous discussion about Tkeram.

    In the past, I have used a 875 and 876-based cards on Ultra 10s in
    the past, and they worked fine. Putting two 10,000rpm SCSI drives
    and a lot of memory in a Ultra 10 seems to wake it up.


    See: http://docs.sun.com/db/doc/816-0222/6m6nmlsuk?a=view
    for info on the glm driver in Solaris 9. It states:

    - snip -

    The glm driver supports the following LSI chips:

    LSI 53C810, which supports Narrow, Fast SCSI mode. The maximum
    SCSI bandwidth is 10 MB/sec.

    LSI 53C875, which supports Wide, Fast, and Ultra SCSI mode.
    The maximum SCSI bandwidth is 40 MB/sec.

    LSI 53C896, which supports Wide, Fast and Ultra SCSI 2 mode. The
    maximum LVD SCSI bandwidth is 80 MB/sec.

    LSI 53c1010, which supports wide, Fast and Ultra SCSI 3 mode. The
    maximum LVD SCSI bandwidth is 160 MB/sec.

    - snip -


    One thing worth mentioning is that you might want to put the controller
    in a PC first, so you can go into the controller's BIOS, and make sure
    that it is configured correctly - BEFORE you put it in a Ultra 5/10.

    There may be a way to do this on a Ultra 5/10, but I have no idea how,
    and it was not obvious on the 2 systems that I put scsi controllers in.

    It looks like you can get an 896-based controllers on eBay for $30-$40 -
    including shipping.


    -Bill


    Bill Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: Will a SCSI CDrom work in an Ultra 10?

    HI,


    Benjamin Gawert wrote: 
    >
    >
    > That's only the case if he uses LVD SCSI controller and HD and a SE SCSI
    > CDROM on the same bus, in which case the whole Bus will switch down to SE
    > (UW-SCSI 40MB/s). Otherwise the CDROM never will slow down the HD,
    > especially if he uses an SE SCSI Controller.[/ref]
    Depending of what SCSI CD-ROM or disk is installed, "normal" SCSI-1
    was/could be asynchronous which limits the bandwidth to 5MB/s, 10 MB/s
    in synchronous.

    All SCSI must be able to support asynchronous in order to be backwards
    compatible which is the fantastic thing about SCSI, a typical HW
    engineered specified interface :)) imagine something like 17-18 years
    and still on the edge!

    But I don't know what interface the CD-ROM is using.

    This is also something that I think need to be setup via a PC BIOS as
    mentioned in this thread.


    /michael

    Michael Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: Will a SCSI CDrom work in an Ultra 10?

    Bill S. wrote: 

    I have a LSIU160 controller, based on a 53C1010 chip, but I can't get it
    working (in an Ultra 10, Solaris 8). The man page for glm says this is
    supported. It's been awhile, and I can't remember the errors or I give
    them. Any insights as to my possible problem would be appreciated.

    --
    Bill Wyatt (harvard.edu) "remove this" for email
    Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory (Cambridge, MA, USA)

    WilliamREMOVEWyattTHIS Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: Will a SCSI CDrom work in an Ultra 10?

    Michael Laajanen wrote:
     

    Even then it wouldn't slow down even an Ultra20 Bus, not to forget that
    using an SCSI1 CDROM which is 2x speed at best makes no sense in an Ultra 10
    since the slowest CDROM sold with it was 4x or 8x...
     

    That's useless as everything You configure on an SCSI controller's BIOS in a
    PC is useless when this controller is used in a Ultra10 or any other
    UltraSPARC machine, since the PC BIOS isn't active there.

    Benjamin


    Benjamin Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: Will a SCSI CDrom work in an Ultra 10?


    "Benjamin Gawert" <de> wrote in message
    news:bls7ip$f3prm$news.uni-berlin.de... 
    >
    > That's useless as everything You configure on an SCSI controller's BIOS in[/ref]


    Actually, it is IMPORTANT, unless the Ultra 10 resets all the values
    in the controllers config, which I do not believe to be the case.

    The point is NOT to modify the PC's BIOS, it is to configure the
    SCSI CONTROLLER itself. Unless you have done this, you might not
    understand.

    You put the controller in a PC, and when the PC boots, you get a
    message like 'press F10' to configure the SCSI CONTROLLER. This
    lets you set whether a device is wide or narrow, the speed, which
    device is bootable, which IDs to scan for, whether to scan all
    LUNs, whether CDs are bootable, blah, blah, blah.

    You don't get this message when the controller is in an Ultra 5 or
    10, so sticking the controller in a PC is the easiest way to
    configure it.

    -Bill


    Bill Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: Will a SCSI CDrom work in an Ultra 10?


    "Bill S." <com> wrote in message news:s%jgb.59725$austin.rr.com... 
    > >
    > > That's useless as everything You configure on an SCSI controller's BIOS in[/ref]
    > a 
    >
    > Actually, it is IMPORTANT, unless the Ultra 10 resets all the values
    > in the controllers config, which I do not believe to be the case.
    >
    > The point is NOT to modify the PC's BIOS, it is to configure the
    > SCSI CONTROLLER itself. Unless you have done this, you might not
    > understand.
    >
    > You put the controller in a PC, and when the PC boots, you get a
    > message like 'press F10' to configure the SCSI CONTROLLER. This
    > lets you set whether a device is wide or narrow, the speed, which
    > device is bootable, which IDs to scan for, whether to scan all
    > LUNs, whether CDs are bootable, blah, blah, blah.
    >
    > You don't get this message when the controller is in an Ultra 5 or
    > 10, so sticking the controller in a PC is the easiest way to
    > configure it.[/ref]

    I don't have the code or chip specs for the 53c1010, but I do have
    all the info for all the other chips, and what you say sounds like
    nonsense to me.

    AFAIK, the glm FCode/OBP on a SPARC-based system does *not* access
    the options stored by the PC BIOS to control its configuration choices.

    Bruce Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: Will a SCSI CDrom work in an Ultra 10?


    "Bill S." <com> skrev i melding
    news:GvXfb.70983$austin.rr.com... [/ref]
    >  
    >
    >
    > NCR/Symbios/Lsi Logic 875-based SCSI controllers do work well,but
    > a few - like Tekram - will not work. I am sure there have been
    > numerous discussion about Tkeram.
    >
    > In the past, I have used a 875 and 876-based cards on Ultra 10s in
    > the past, and they worked fine. Putting two 10,000rpm SCSI drives
    > and a lot of memory in a Ultra 10 seems to wake it up.
    >
    >
    > See: http://docs.sun.com/db/doc/816-0222/6m6nmlsuk?a=view
    > for info on the glm driver in Solaris 9. It states:
    >
    > - snip -
    >
    > The glm driver supports the following LSI chips:
    >
    > LSI 53C810, which supports Narrow, Fast SCSI mode. The maximum
    > SCSI bandwidth is 10 MB/sec.
    >
    > LSI 53C875, which supports Wide, Fast, and Ultra SCSI mode.
    > The maximum SCSI bandwidth is 40 MB/sec.
    >
    > LSI 53C896, which supports Wide, Fast and Ultra SCSI 2 mode. The
    > maximum LVD SCSI bandwidth is 80 MB/sec.
    >
    > LSI 53c1010, which supports wide, Fast and Ultra SCSI 3 mode. The
    > maximum LVD SCSI bandwidth is 160 MB/sec.
    >
    > - snip -
    >
    >
    > One thing worth mentioning is that you might want to put the controller
    > in a PC first, so you can go into the controller's BIOS, and make sure
    > that it is configured correctly - BEFORE you put it in a Ultra 5/10.
    >
    > There may be a way to do this on a Ultra 5/10, but I have no idea how,
    > and it was not obvious on the 2 systems that I put scsi controllers in.
    >
    > It looks like you can get an 896-based controllers on eBay for $30-$40 -
    > including shipping.[/ref]

    Thanks. I was specifically interested in the LSIU80LVD or LSIU160 HBAs -
    if someome knew whether they worked plug&play or not.
    Torsten Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: Will a SCSI CDrom work in an Ultra 10?

    Bill S. wrote:
     

    You don't seem to understand. It is the SCSI Controllers BIOS that modifies
    values stored in an EEPROM on the controller, _not_ in the SCSI controller
    chip itself. Only the SCSI Controller BIOS reads and writes to this EEPROM
    and sets the registers on the initialization phase.

    If You put the same SCSI controller in a not-x86 system (for example an U10)
    the BIOS and the EEPROM isn't touched, and the SCSI controller get's
    initialized by the OpenFirmware stored on the mobo of the Ultra10.
     

    Eactly.
     

    Sure, since the Controller BIOS and the settings are _not_ used by the SCSI
    controller if it's not inside a PC.
     

    No. If the controller is inside a PC You can configure what You want, it has
    absolutely _no_ _impact_ on the controller's configuration if You put it in
    an Ultra 10.

    Benjamin


    Benjamin Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: Will a SCSI CDrom work in an Ultra 10?

    "Bill S." <com> writes:
     
     

    You can'd do any of this unless you first of all install a PCI SCSI card
    into the machine. I presume you already have taken care of this step though?

    The Ultra 5 and 20 OBP firmware code versions I have experience with don't
    contain any obvious support for booting off a SCSI CD-ROM drive. I've got it
    work in the past by figuring out the full device patch and creating a new
    devalias to save me typing the whole path string in every time I wanted to
    reboot the system I was trying it with.

    Regards,

    Craig.
    --
    SUN RIPENED KERNELS - Surplus Sun Microsystems Equipment, Parts + Accessories
    Waterfall, NSW, Australia - Operated by Craig Dewick - Founded in 1996
    Main site: www.sunrk.com.au - Ebay Shop: www.ebayshops.com.au/sunripenedkernels
    Ph: +612-9520-2547 - Fax: +612-9520-2557 - Mobile: 04-2163-0547 (int. +614)
    Kralizec Guest

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