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Windoes XP and RedHat Linux - Linux Setup, Configuration & Administration

I want to use both Windows and Linux on the same machine and be able to read in each of the OS, files stored in the other. For instance, I would like to open *.pdf files stored in the Linux system, from Windows, or read some text files stored in Windows, in Linux. (Writing from one to the other would also be nice, but not mandatory.) I bought a new machine with plenty of main memory and 2 large disks, and it came installed with Windows XP which uses NTFS. I also bought RedHat Professional Workstation. I thought it would ...

  1. #1

    Default Windoes XP and RedHat Linux

    I want to use both Windows and Linux on the same machine and be
    able to read in each of the OS, files stored in the other. For
    instance, I would like to open *.pdf files stored in the Linux
    system, from Windows, or read some text files stored in Windows,
    in Linux. (Writing from one to the other would also be nice, but
    not mandatory.)

    I bought a new machine with plenty of main memory and 2 large
    disks, and it came installed with Windows XP which uses NTFS. I
    also bought RedHat Professional Workstation. I thought it would
    be probably be easiest to use one of the disks for Windows, and
    the other for Linux. A few questions I have.

    1) Can the Linux system read NTFS?

    2) How do I enable Windows to access the Linux disk?

    3) Both disks came as part of Windows. If I remove the second
    disk from Windows, will the Linux installation be able to format
    the second disk, or do I need something like Partition Commander
    to first format the disk for Linux before installation?

    4) Eventually I will install VMware to run both Windows and Linux
    together, and I want to make sure I do not do something now that
    will present a problem for VMware. Is anyone familiar enough with
    VMware to make any suggestions about what to do now?

    Thanks,

    --
    Stephen
    com

    Ignorance is just a placeholder for knowledge.

    Printed using 100% recycled electrons.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Stephen Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: Windoes XP and RedHat Linux

    Stephen Speicher <com> wrote: 

    Yes. You will have to get and compile an ntfs driver, and load itinto
    the kernel.
     

    You get a linux file system driver for windows. There are some
    (depending on WHICH linux file system we are talking about).
     

    Eh? Why would a linux not be able to format something? Anyway, I think
    you mean "partition", not format. Formatting happens after
    partitioning.

    Windows conflates the terms. Bad.
     

    No. I don't really understand the point.

    Peter
    P.T. Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: Windoes XP and RedHat Linux


    On Thu, 27 Nov 2003, Jules Dubois wrote:
     
    >
    > Create a shared FAT32 partition and enable 'DOS FAT fs', 'MSDOS fs', and
    > 'VFAT fs' support in the Linux kernel -- if they aren't already enabled.
    > Windows and Linux will then have read/write access to a common partition.
    >[/ref]

    Thanks for your responses, Jules, but it is not clear to me how to
    proceed. Right now the two disks are defined in Windows as NTFS.
    Is it during the RedHat installation that I create a "shared
    FAT32 partition?" Also, I have many gigabytes of pdf files on my
    old Linux machine which I will be transferring over to the new
    machine. Can the old files, I guess in Ext2, be written directly
    to this shared FAT32?
     

    It's a 2.8gHz cpu, with 1.5gb RAM. Hopefully that will be sufficient.

    --
    Stephen
    com

    Ignorance is just a placeholder for knowledge.

    Printed using 100% recycled electrons.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Stephen Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: Windoes XP and RedHat Linux

    On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:17:20 -0800, in article
    <news:localdomain>, Stephen
    Speicher wrote:
     

    Yes, Linux can read NTFS partitions. However, writing to an NTFS partition
    puts the data on the partition at risk of corruption. Microsoft deters
    interoperability by refusing to release details of NTFS' internals.
     

    Create a shared FAT32 partition and enable 'DOS FAT fs', 'MSDOS fs', and
    'VFAT fs' support in the Linux kernel -- if they aren't already enabled.
    Windows and Linux will then have read/write access to a common partition.
     

    Yes, Linux has partitioning and formatting software.
     

    No, you don't need Partition Commander.

    In the not-too-distant past, however, I used Partition Magic to partition
    and format disks before installing Linux. I did this because then the
    Debian installer only lists the Ext2 and swap partitions when it asks me
    which partitions I'd like to mount.
     

    I know nothing about VMware... except you'll need a very fast CPU and gobs
    of RAM to make it work smoothly.
    Jules Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: Windoes XP and RedHat Linux


    "Stephen Speicher" <com> wrote in message
    news:localdomain... 
    > >
    > > Create a shared FAT32 partition and enable 'DOS FAT fs', 'MSDOS fs', and
    > > 'VFAT fs' support in the Linux kernel -- if they aren't already enabled.
    > > Windows and Linux will then have read/write access to a common[/ref][/ref]
    partition. 
    >
    > Thanks for your responses, Jules, but it is not clear to me how to
    > proceed. Right now the two disks are defined in Windows as NTFS.[/ref]

    yep, well you need to move the files off the 2nd partition , back to the
    first partition.

     

    Yes, thats when you can create the partition. you can delete the partition
    under windows , or just wait till you install linux.

     


    Yep, a shared fat32 partition is a great place to store all your files that
    you want access to from both.

     [/ref]
    gobs 
    >
    > It's a 2.8gHz cpu, with 1.5gb RAM. Hopefully that will be sufficient.[/ref]

    Yep, its suitable for vmware.





    Leon. Guest

  6. Moderated Post

    Default Re: Dual Boot Windoes XP and RedHat Linux

    Removed by Administrator
    William Guest
    Moderated Post

  7. #7

    Default Re: Windoes XP and RedHat Linux

    On Fri, 28 Nov 2003, Leon. wrote: 
    > >
    > > Thanks for your responses, Jules, but it is not clear to me how to
    > > proceed. Right now the two disks are defined in Windows as NTFS.[/ref]
    >
    > yep, well you need to move the files off the 2nd partition , back to the
    > first partition.
    >[/ref]

    I guess I was not very clear. I do not think there are any
    Windows files on the second disk, but just that Windows
    recognizes it as part of the system. I think all of Windows is on
    the first drive.
     
    >
    > Yes, thats when you can create the partition. you can delete the partition
    > under windows , or just wait till you install linux.
    >[/ref]

    I intend to devote the entire second drive to Linux and keep the
    first drive for Windows. During the RedHat installation can I
    define the entire second drive as FAT32? Can RedHat store and use
    all of its Linux system files on a FAT32 filesystem? Also, will I
    lose any disk speed using FAT32 as compared to the usual Linux
    Ext2?

    --
    Stephen
    com

    Ignorance is just a placeholder for knowledge.

    Printed using 100% recycled electrons.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Stephen Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: Windoes XP and RedHat Linux

    On 2003-11-28, Jules Dubois <tld> wrote:
     
    >
    > Yes, Linux can read NTFS partitions. However, writing to an NTFS partition
    > puts the data on the partition at risk of corruption.[/ref]

    The converse is also true; there are drivers that allow Windows to access
    linux filesystems, but at the risk of filesystem corruption.
     
    >
    > I know nothing about VMware... except you'll need a very fast CPU and gobs
    > of RAM to make it work smoothly.[/ref]

    I have VMware-4 on my PIII-600 with 382MB RAM and it works pretty well.
    Not at native speed, but still usable. BTW, I would suggest that using
    VMware from linux to access your NTFS partitions is probably the safest
    way as it uses Windows own NTFS support.

    --

    -John (rr.com)
    John Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: Dual Boot Windoes XP and RedHat Linux

    On Fri, 28 Nov 2003, William Hymen wrote: 

    Just asking to be sure: Using FAT32 I will then be able to read,
    in Linux or Windows, a pdf file which was originally store by
    eitherOS ?

    Also, there must be some reason that Linux is using Ext2 and
    Windows is using NTFS. Do you know what I will be losing by
    replacing these with FAT32? Am I losing speed, space, ...?
     

    Thanks. I'll take a look at it.

    --
    Stephen
    com

    Ignorance is just a placeholder for knowledge.

    Printed using 100% recycled electrons.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Stephen Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: Windoes XP and RedHat Linux

    Stephen Speicher <com> wrote: 

    Well, so you have nothing to do, except delete whatever partitions are
    currently on the second disk.
     

    No - you'd be crazy to! You want to use it for linux, not windows.
     

    No, it's not even a unix file system.
     

    You will lose more than "disk speed". You will lose permissions,
    owners, access times, soft links, hard links and everything else that
    makes up a unix file system instead of an msdos one. The idea is crazy.
    If you are dead set on it, at least use umsdos as an overlay fs! But
    the idea is just crazy! Why? All you have to do is make a fat32
    partition somewhere if you want to write things to a windows area, or
    install a windows driver that allows access to an ext2fs. Why all this
    putzing?

    Peter
    P.T. Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: Dual Boot Windoes XP and RedHat Linux

    Stephen Speicher <com> wrote: 

    The file doesn't matter. You need a file system for which both o/s's
    have a driver or an application level browser. fat32 is an example of
    such for which there is a driver in both o/s's. You can also get a
    windows browser for ext2.
     

    Sure. The same reason that solaris is using ufs, mac is using hpfs
    (???), irix is using xfs, ...
     

    Yes, everyone knows. fat32 is not a unix file system. It does not work.
     [/ref]
     

    Peter
    P.T. Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: Dual Boot Windoes XP and RedHat Linux

    On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 08:04:22 -0800, Stephen Speicher <com> wrote:
     

    .... 'cause ext2 is a native Linux filesystem and NTFS is a
    native m$ filesytem and they are specific to each OS. you
    want to use fat32 because 'write' to NTFS from Linux is
    experimental and should be avoided
    ..
    --
    /// Michael J. Tobler: motorcyclist, surfer, skydiver, \\\
    \\\ and author: "Inside Linux", "C++ HowTo", "C++ Unleashed" ///
    One reason why George Washington Is held in such veneration:
    He never blamed his problems in the former Administration.
    mjt Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: Windoes XP and RedHat Linux

    Stephen Speicher wrote: 

    No, if you intend to install Linux on that drive.
     

    No. Create a separate FAT partition to use for data exchange only, don't
    try to install any parts of the OS to it.

    --
    Markku Kolkka
    fi
    Markku Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: Windoes XP and RedHat Linux

    On Fri, 28 Nov 2003, John Thompson wrote:
     
    > >
    > > I know nothing about VMware... except you'll need a very fast CPU and gobs
    > > of RAM to make it work smoothly.[/ref]
    >
    > I have VMware-4 on my PIII-600 with 382MB RAM and it works pretty well.
    > Not at native speed, but still usable. BTW, I would suggest that using
    > VMware from linux to access your NTFS partitions is probably the safest
    > way as it uses Windows own NTFS support.
    >[/ref]

    Oh, great, an actual VMware user!

    John, a couple of questions, if you will.

    Are you saying that VMware somehow provides the ability for a
    Linux program to read and write to NTFS, or just read? On their
    website they mention "Drag and Drop and Shared Folders" but it is
    not at all clear to me just how that works.

    Also, when I open a Windows or Linux window under VMware, does
    each of the windows look just like the usual OS? In other words,
    if I am using KDE for my Linux desktop, under VMware do I get the
    KDE desktop when I open a Linux window? Likewise for Windows XP
    -- do I get the usual Windows background and icons with all the
    usual Windows functionality?

    --
    Stephen
    com

    Ignorance is just a placeholder for knowledge.

    Printed using 100% recycled electrons.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Stephen Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: Windoes XP and RedHat Linux

    On Fri, 28 Nov 2003, Markku Kolkka wrote:
     
    >
    > No, if you intend to install Linux on that drive.
    >[/ref]

    Okay.
     
    >
    > No. Create a separate FAT partition to use for data exchange only, don't
    > try to install any parts of the OS to it.
    >[/ref]

    So then my home directory (/home/stephen) must also be on an Ext2
    file, as well as any of the c programs I write? I can't compile
    and run a c program in Linux in a directory which is defined as
    FAT32? What about things such as pdf files?

    --
    Stephen
    com

    Ignorance is just a placeholder for knowledge.

    Printed using 100% recycled electrons.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Stephen Guest

  16. #16

    Default Re: Windoes XP and RedHat Linux

    On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:24:57 -0800, in article
    <news:localdomain>, Stephen
    Speicher wrote:
     
    >>
    >> Create a shared FAT32 partition and enable 'DOS FAT fs', 'MSDOS fs', and
    >> 'VFAT fs' support in the Linux kernel -- if they aren't already enabled.
    >> Windows and Linux will then have read/write access to a common partition.
    >>[/ref]
    > Thanks for your responses, Jules, but it is not clear to me how to
    > proceed. Right now the two disks are defined in Windows as NTFS.[/ref]

    I was ignoring the details of your original article, so I'll have to ask:
    When you say "two disks", do you mean you have two separate hard drives in
    your box or you have one hard drive partitioned as "C:" and "D:"?
     

    I seriously doubt it (but I don't do RedHat). Also, there's no
    significance to the "shared" part. It's simply a FAT32 partition that you
    just happen to be using for two operating systems. You can create the
    partition using Windows or Linux.
     

    This doesn't quite make sense. The terms "partition" and "disk" are
    confused under Windows. If the files are good, it doesn't matter what
    filesystem you've used to store them in the past.

    If you put your old files on a FAT32 partition, they will be usable under
    Windows through some "drive letter" and through Linux through some
    directory -- that's the only difference. You'll be able to read, write,
    modify, and delete them as you please under either OS.

    You didn't ask but:

    * I recommend creating Ext3 (rather than Ext2) partitions under Linux
    for their added reliability. (Or look at ReiserFS.)

    * You may be able to access Ext2 and/or Ext3 partitions through Windows
    with a third-party driver. It's probably simpler to use FAT32.

    --
    "[O]bviously Linux owes its heritage to Unix, but not its code.
    We would not, nor will not, make such a claim."
    -- Darl McBride. CEO, The SCO Group. August 2002.
    Jules Guest

  17. #17

    Default Re: Windoes XP and RedHat Linux

    On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:48:25 -0800, in article
    <news:localdomain>, Stephen
    Speicher wrote:
     

    This is slightly confusing. Assuming by "second drive" you mean "other
    partition", you'll probably want to:

    * Remove this partition -- if it's a physical disk drive remove all
    the partitions.

    * Create one (or more) partitions for installing Linux files.

    * Create one partition for Linux to use as "swap space" -- usually
    it's recommended to use twice the RAM you have installed but
    there's no requirement to do so.

    * Create a FAT32 partition big enough to hold the files you want to
    be able to read and WRITE under both operating systems -- if you
    don't care about writing the files or creating new ones, skip this
    step.
     

    No. As an "operating system," Linux depends on having filesystems with
    features FAT32 and NTFS do not support.

    --
    "[O]bviously Linux owes its heritage to Unix, but not its code.
    We would not, nor will not, make such a claim."
    -- Darl McBride. CEO, The SCO Group. August 2002.
    Jules Guest

  18. #18

    Default Re: Windoes XP and RedHat Linux

    On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 13:23:41 -0800, in article
    <news:localdomain>, Stephen
    Speicher wrote:
     

    Sort of. It must be on a "Linux" partition (not "file"), which may be
    "formatted" as Ext2, Ext3, ReiserFS, or one of many others... but not FAT32
    or NTFS.
     

    You can design, implement, and, most likely, compile your programs on a
    FAT32 partition. I think you can execute the programs from a FAT32 if you
    tell Linux to allow it. (I do not.)

    If you use Linux' Ext3, you get the additional reliability benefits of
    "journalling".

    --
    "[O]bviously Linux owes its heritage to Unix, but not its code.
    We would not, nor will not, make such a claim."
    -- Darl McBride. CEO, The SCO Group. August 2002.
    Jules Guest

  19. #19

    Default Re: Windoes XP and RedHat Linux

    On Sat, 29 Nov 2003, Jules Dubois wrote:
     
    > > Thanks for your responses, Jules, but it is not clear to me how to
    > > proceed. Right now the two disks are defined in Windows as NTFS.[/ref]
    >
    > I was ignoring the details of your original article, so I'll have to ask:
    > When you say "two disks", do you mean you have two separate hard drives in
    > your box or you have one hard drive partitioned as "C:" and "D:"?
    >[/ref]

    Yes, two separate hard drives, one 160gb and the other 200gb.
     
    >
    > I seriously doubt it (but I don't do RedHat). Also, there's no
    > significance to the "shared" part. It's simply a FAT32 partition that you
    > just happen to be using for two operating systems. You can create the
    > partition using Windows or Linux.
    >[/ref]

    After reading other posts I get this now.
     
    >
    > This doesn't quite make sense. The terms "partition" and "disk" are
    > confused under Windows. If the files are good, it doesn't matter what
    > filesystem you've used to store them in the past.
    >
    > If you put your old files on a FAT32 partition, they will be usable under
    > Windows through some "drive letter" and through Linux through some
    > directory -- that's the only difference. You'll be able to read, write,
    > modify, and delete them as you please under either OS.
    >[/ref]

    Okay. Just checking.
     

    Thanks.

    --
    Stephen
    com

    Ignorance is just a placeholder for knowledge.

    Printed using 100% recycled electrons.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Stephen Guest

  20. #20

    Default Re: Windoes XP and RedHat Linux

    On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 13:05:36 -0800, Stephen Speicher <com> wrote:
     [/ref]
     

    .... i use vmware on the Linux side, with win2k as a guest OS.
    i can mounted partitions shareable to the vmware client.
     

    .... when you start the VM and run some guest OS, yes, the
    guest OS looks just like its native self. that's because
    vmware provides a virtual machine and the OS thinks it's
    running on this platform.

    example:
    http://michaeljtobler.homelinux.com/linux_serving_ms.jpg
    this is suse 8.2 running (as host OS) and win2k running in
    a kde window, with slimbrowser running behind excel and
    the win2k start menu open, and the kde menu popped up.
    you can run the guest OS in a window or fullscreen.
    ..
    --
    /// Michael J. Tobler: motorcyclist, surfer, skydiver, \\\
    \\\ and author: "Inside Linux", "C++ HowTo", "C++ Unleashed" ///
    New Hampshire law forbids you to tap your feet, nod your head, or in
    any way keep time to the music in a tavern, restaurant, or cafe.
    mjt Guest

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