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xcode 1.2: pro, con? - Mac Programming

has anybody been brave enough to install it yet? any experiences to share? i've finally switched to xcode from project builder, about a year later than everybody else. i have to say that, by and large, i like it better. using precompiled headers, it builds my projects much faster than pb did. my biggest pb gripe was that there was no way to compile individual files, which xcode has finally fixed, if you're using native xcode project files and not converted .pbproj files. i've heard others complain that xcode crashes on them, but that's never happened to me even once, ...

  1. #1

    Default xcode 1.2: pro, con?

    has anybody been brave enough to install it yet? any experiences to
    share?

    i've finally switched to xcode from project builder, about a year later
    than everybody else. i have to say that, by and large, i like it
    better. using precompiled headers, it builds my projects much faster
    than pb did. my biggest pb gripe was that there was no way to compile
    individual files, which xcode has finally fixed, if you're using native
    xcode project files and not converted .pbproj files. i've heard others
    complain that xcode crashes on them, but that's never happened to me
    even once, although pb did crash on me about once a week. pb didn't
    deal with static libraries properly, it would let me add them to the
    project but then wouldn't present them to the linker, so i had to
    explicitly type the names into the linker flags box. xcode handles them
    just fine.

    only a couple of cons so far. release builds using the most aggressive
    optimization setting sometimes generates incorrect code. i didn't track
    it down all the way, but i think it may have something to do with taking
    the address of a function, and calling it through a pointer. using the
    next-to-highest optimization setting fixed the problen.

    the build window doesn't remember that you've dragged the splitter up so
    you can see errors and build messages and stuff. that's pretty dumb.
    how many people have come to these groups and complained that they get
    an "unsolved symbols" link error, but then no messages indicating which
    symbols are missing? it's because the build window splitter defaults to
    not letting you see the nitty-gritty details. now they've made it even
    worse, so you have to drag it up every single time you start xcode.
    Jhnny Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: xcode 1.2: pro, con?

    In article <nashville.comcast.net>,
    Jhnny Fvrt (it means "halo, then resonate") <com>
    wrote:
     

    It works fine for me.
     

    It's a question of native targets versus non-native targets, not the
    extension of the project file. You can do this with .pbproj projects as
    long as you upgrade your targets to native.
     

    This is almost certainly a bug in your code that happens to go away at
    higher optimizations. That said, the full Xcode 1.2 install includes a
    newer version of GCC, so perhaps you'll see different behavior here.

    -Eric

    --
    Eric Albert stanford.edu
    http://rescomp.stanford.edu/~ejalbert/
    Eric Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: xcode 1.2: pro, con?

    Eric Albert wrote: 
    >
    > It's a question of native targets versus non-native targets, not the
    > extension of the project file. You can do this with .pbproj projects
    > as long as you upgrade your targets to native.[/ref]

    i was (vaguely) aware of the differences, but didn't think it warranted
    a long-winded discussion. there seems to be two levels of converting a
    pbproj project to xcode, both of which i found unsatisfactory. even if
    you choose to upgrade targets to native, you have a project that's a
    mess. it's got things in it like "TargetName (upgraded)" -- yuck. so i
    said the heck with it, tossed my old projects, and recreated them from
    scratch. i've got projects with 400 files in them, so it's not a
    trivial task. another xcode downside, now that i think about it. i was
    pretty sure i'd have to do that, which was another reason i put off
    upgrading for so long.
     

    if there were any money in it, i think i'd take that bet. i am just as
    certain that it really is an optimizer bug. alas, i can't seem to get
    my ego engaged thoroughly enough to spend several hours isolating a test
    case, just to win an argument on usenet.
    Jhnny Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: xcode 1.2: pro, con?

    In article <nashville.comcast.net>,
    Jhnny Fvrt (it means "halo, then resonate") <com>
    wrote:
     
    > >
    > > It's a question of native targets versus non-native targets, not the
    > > extension of the project file. You can do this with .pbproj projects
    > > as long as you upgrade your targets to native.[/ref]
    >
    > i was (vaguely) aware of the differences, but didn't think it warranted
    > a long-winded discussion. there seems to be two levels of converting a
    > pbproj project to xcode, both of which i found unsatisfactory. even if
    > you choose to upgrade targets to native, you have a project that's a
    > mess. it's got things in it like "TargetName (upgraded)" -- yuck.[/ref]

    You can trivially delete the old targets if you'd like. That's just a
    click or two for each. Xcode is just trying to be nice by not deleting
    potentially useful data for you without asking. Native targets are
    great, but there are still some (rare) things that are possible only in
    jam-based targets. If Xcode deleted your jam-based targets for you
    automatically, you'd end up with a broken project in the case in which
    your targets depend on things that don't work with native targets. I'm
    sure you wouldn't like that very much. :)
     
    >
    > if there were any money in it, i think i'd take that bet. i am just as
    > certain that it really is an optimizer bug. alas, i can't seem to get
    > my ego engaged thoroughly enough to spend several hours isolating a test
    > case, just to win an argument on usenet.[/ref]

    Fair enough. I'll mention, though, that true codegen bugs are
    exceedingly rare. Easily 90% of the time someone tells me they have a
    codegen problem it turns out to be a bug in their code. Any compiler
    engineer will tell you that the only way to convincingly demonstrate
    that you've hit a codegen bug is to distill your code down into a test
    case that is clearly valid code and does the wrong thing when compiled.

    Personally, I don't care much about either your ego or my ego. I'd just
    like to help you make your code work well and to work to ensure that GCC
    on Mac OS X doesn't generate bad code, since if it does that affects
    many developers. I hope you can find time to work on that test case
    someday, or at least to show us the code that doesn't work correctly.

    -Eric

    --
    Eric Albert stanford.edu
    http://rescomp.stanford.edu/~ejalbert/
    Eric Guest

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