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XCode already usable? - Mac Programming

I am slowly beginning to consider "reupgrading" to Panther/XCode. The major reason why I am running Jag is that PBuilder works (more or less) stable here and it didn't work on Panther, while XCode at its first release was a pile of bugs, which crashed every ten or twenty minutes and could even take the sources with it. My question would be if those of you who use XCode in the latest version have noticed a _real_ improvement in stability over the previous ones? Cordially. P....

  1. #1

    Default XCode already usable?

    I am slowly beginning to consider "reupgrading" to Panther/XCode. The
    major reason why I am running Jag is that PBuilder works (more or less)
    stable here and it didn't work on Panther, while XCode at its first
    release was a pile of bugs, which crashed every ten or twenty minutes
    and could even take the sources with it. My question would be if those
    of you who use XCode in the latest version have noticed a _real_
    improvement in stability over the previous ones?

    Cordially.

    P.
    silverdr Guest

  2. #2

    Default Re: XCode already usable?

    In article <3ffd74c7$inet.com.pl>,
    silverdr <remove.it.pl> wrote:
     

    I find Xcode 1.1 to be much better in many ways and far more usable than
    Xcode 1.0. Only you can determine whether it's good enough for your
    needs, of course, but the changes between 1.0 and 1.1 are sufficiently
    large that I'd suggest giving it another shot.

    -Eric

    --
    Eric Albert stanford.edu
    http://rescomp.stanford.edu/~ejalbert/
    Eric Guest

  3. #3

    Default Re: XCode already usable?

    Eric Albert <stanford.edu> wrote:
     
    >
    > I find Xcode 1.1 to be much better in many ways and far more usable than
    > Xcode 1.0. Only you can determine whether it's good enough for your
    > needs, of course, but the changes between 1.0 and 1.1 are sufficiently
    > large that I'd suggest giving it another shot.[/ref]

    I agree. Xcode 1.1 is hot stuff. In Project Builder the debugger was
    almost unusable. In Xcode the debugger is great and build times are
    insanely fast (thanks to zerolink and tricks like fix and continue).
    Doentation and auto-completion are now rolled in in a really fast
    usable way. Yes you can crash it but it doesn't happen all the time. m.

    --
    matt neuburg, phd = com, http://www.tidbits.com/matt/
    AppleScript: The Definitive Guide
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596005571/somethingsbymatt
    Read TidBITS! It's free and smart. http://www.tidbits.com
    matt Guest

  4. #4

    Default Re: XCode already usable?

    In article <3ffd74c7$inet.com.pl>,
    silverdr <remove.it.pl> wrote:
     

    I haven't noticed much of an improvement with 1.1, although I haven't
    used it a lot just yet. My most annoying bug (the build process halts
    for no reason sometimes, and the only way to get out of it is to quit
    and restart Xcode) was made slightly worse with 1.1.

    On the other hand, I've never had problems of the magnitude you're
    describing, either. Xcode crashed from time to time for me, but never
    very often, and it's never taken any source out with it.
    Michael Guest

  5. #5

    Default Re: XCode already usable?

    silverdr <remove.it.pl> wrote:
     

    I'm now using 1.1 and it _is_ much better than 1.0. A lot of crashes
    have indeed been fixed. I would say that stability wise it's close to
    Project Builder now, so if you can live with that, you can probably live
    with Xcode.

    On the ohter hand I can't imagine anyone doing serious (for money)
    projects with the present incarnation of xCode. There are still a lot of
    little problems that tend to get annoying, and you do have to be patient
    and restart the app frequently to keep your sanity. But hey, it's a gift
    horse...

    Patrick
    Patrick Guest

  6. #6

    Default Re: XCode already usable?

    silverdr <remove.it.pl> wrote: 

    I have a similar experience to the other responders. 1.1 is a great
    improvement. Predictive compile, code completion and so forth are great
    time savers. I also don't have the problems with line endings I had in PB
    (inserting a new line often requires two presses of Return and other
    crappy formatting problems) however, I do have a new batch of little
    bugs. In particular:

    - Text editing becomes very slow (delay between key presses and
    appearance on screen) after some time.
    - Xcode typically takes care of this for me by crashing (with some error
    about an internal error trying to update formating) reasonably regularly
    (maybe a couple of times in a few hour coding session).
    - I've never experienced data loss however!
    - Occasional formatting glitches - colour, new lines, indenting. But
    these sorts of things are pretty hard to avoid and are evident in other
    editors as well.
    - Making a change in a header file requires two compiles to take effect
    (I imagine this is caching/predictive compile/optimization issues).

    It is all edurable though, and I use it full time for production work.

    --
    *--------------------------------------------------------*
    | ^Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool^ |
    | Heath Raftery, HRSoftWorks _\|/_ |
    *______________________________________m_('.')_m__ _______*
    Heath Guest

  7. #7

    Default Re: XCode already usable?

    In article <mail-369092.20470708012004localhost>,
    Michael Ash <com> wrote:
     
    >
    > I haven't noticed much of an improvement with 1.1, although I haven't
    > used it a lot just yet. My most annoying bug (the build process halts
    > for no reason sometimes, and the only way to get out of it is to quit
    > and restart Xcode) was made slightly worse with 1.1.[/ref]

    Discussion on xcode-users seems to show that this is a problem with
    specific settings for when the build window appears. I have it set to
    always open during builds and never close after builds, and I haven't
    run into this. You might want to give those settings a shot.

    Hope this helps,
    Eric

    --
    Eric Albert stanford.edu
    http://rescomp.stanford.edu/~ejalbert/
    Eric Guest

  8. #8

    Default Re: XCode already usable?

    In article <stanford.edu>,
    Eric Albert <stanford.edu> wrote:
     

    Thanks for the advice, Eric. However, my settings are exactly the same.
    The only thing that's even slightly related (that I can see) is the
    Errors & Warnings SmartGroup, which I have to never open and never close
    during builds.
    Michael Guest

  9. #9

    Default Re: XCode already usable?

    Thanks to all responders. I think I got convinced to give a second try
    to Panther/XCode. Looks like I am going to lose my weekend again ;-)

    As for the data loss, most of you probably didn't experience this as
    most of you don't use "illegal" characters in the files. I happen to
    have some even in my name (not the nick), thus the first version turned
    its back on me. Luckily it was a local copy of the sources only while
    the originals remained untouched in the CVS repository.

    Cordially.

    P.
    silverdr Guest

  10. #10

    Default Re: XCode already usable?

    In article <3ffedb06$inet.com.pl>,
    silverdr <remove.it.pl> wrote:
     

    Sad to say it, on the 20th anniversary of the Mac, but it's a bad idea
    to use any "special" characters in PB/Xcode project names or paths to
    files, including spaces. Xcode does a lot of interaction with shell
    utilities, and it still doesn't seem to have everything covered when it
    comes to special characters. The only time I encountered this was with
    PB ing up in subtle ways if I created a project with a space in the
    name, but your scenario doesn't surprise me.
    Michael Guest

  11. #11

    Default Re: XCode already usable?

    Michael Ash wrote: 
    >
    >
    > Sad to say it, on the 20th anniversary of the Mac, but it's a bad idea
    > to use any "special" characters in PB/Xcode project names or paths to
    > files, including spaces. Xcode does a lot of interaction with shell
    > utilities, and it still doesn't seem to have everything covered when it
    > comes to special characters. The only time I encountered this was with
    > PB ing up in subtle ways if I created a project with a space in the
    > name, but your scenario doesn't surprise me.[/ref]

    You are perfectly right. And I am defensive enough not to use even
    spaces in the filenames. That was the content, which got turned into
    garbage after save-before-built. Not to mention that just after that
    XCode crashed the third time within 30 mins so that nobody could have
    the content preserved even for good, old copy-paste method... That was
    the moment I gave up and spent another day reinstalling Jag with PB from
    scratch. Some time later Apple posted a patch, which was supposed to
    cover the "illegal" characters bug. Since then, I wasn't brave enough to
    check if it covered my case though.
    silverdr Guest

  12. #12

    Default Re: XCode already usable?

    In article <mail-55A748.09585009012004localhost>,
    Michael Ash <com> wrote:
     
    >
    > Thanks for the advice, Eric. However, my settings are exactly the same.
    > The only thing that's even slightly related (that I can see) is the
    > Errors & Warnings SmartGroup, which I have to never open and never close
    > during builds.[/ref]

    Replying to myself, how fun.

    On the advice of another person, I turned off predictive compiling, and
    I haven't had the problem since (a couple of days...). In case anybody
    else is afflicted with this problem, try that.
    Michael Guest

  13. #13

    Default Re: XCode already usable?

    Michael Ash wrote: 
    >>
    >>Thanks for the advice, Eric. However, my settings are exactly the same.
    >>The only thing that's even slightly related (that I can see) is the
    >>Errors & Warnings SmartGroup, which I have to never open and never close
    >>during builds.[/ref]
    >
    >
    > Replying to myself, how fun.
    >
    > On the advice of another person, I turned off predictive compiling, and
    > I haven't had the problem since (a couple of days...). In case anybody
    > else is afflicted with this problem, try that.[/ref]

    Good to know. Thanks for that. I am still curing the Panther bites now
    but should get to XCode soon...
    silverdr Guest

  14. #14

    Default Re: XCode already usable?

    In article <mail-40A059.21040911012004localhost>,
    Michael Ash <com> wrote:
     
    > >
    > > Thanks for the advice, Eric. However, my settings are exactly the same.
    > > The only thing that's even slightly related (that I can see) is the
    > > Errors & Warnings SmartGroup, which I have to never open and never close
    > > during builds.[/ref]
    >
    > Replying to myself, how fun.
    >
    > On the advice of another person, I turned off predictive compiling, and
    > I haven't had the problem since (a couple of days...). In case anybody
    > else is afflicted with this problem, try that.[/ref]

    I was going to recommend that, but I'd lost this thread. :( I'm glad to
    hear that you found it....

    -Eric

    --
    Eric Albert stanford.edu
    http://rescomp.stanford.edu/~ejalbert/
    Eric Guest

  15. #15

    Default Re: XCode already usable?

    silverdr wrote:
     

    Just a small follow-up for others still hesitating (if any). I went
    through the second upgrade pain and I have to confirm that xcode got
    much more mature since the first try. In a three hours of heavy coding
    session, I managed to crash it only once vs. once every ten to twenty
    minutes before. Also a lot of annoyances have been corrected. Yes. I can
    call it usable now.

    Best regards to the group.
    silverdr Guest

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